If the suburbs(towson, lutherville,etc) are safe, why do I see higher crime stats for them?

[trickymost]

Originally Posted by rsh56

Tricky, can you show me how Padonia Elem is declining? I can understand the neighborhood being a little "worse", but I doubt it has anything is as bad here in Montgomery County. Cockeysville is a lot like Gaithersburg here in MoCo, there are both good and bad schools here but you would have to look deeper.

I'm sorry about what has happened to you. That sounds quite extreme and beyond what I was use to hearing back when I lived in Baltimore county. Though as far as stealing gadgets from cars is concerned, we have the problem here too in Bethesda in the garages. Just having your stuff out in sight is certainly going to mean a break-in or attempt to harm your car or whatever.

Baltimore County - Padonia International Elementary : 2011 Maryland Report Card

The statistics tell no lies. I think the apartments around Padonia Elementary went section 8 in the late 90s or early 2000s. When I look at the MSA data for 5th grade (really the most important one for elementary), it averages around 77% proficient. In all the surrounding elementary schools except Warren, it's between 97-100%.

Likewise, in 2000 about 22% of students received free and reduced meals at Padonia. Last year, it was up to 45%. It's been going up steadily since 2000.

I know the school system in Maryland, trust me it's much worse in the declining schools up here than in MoCo.

[rsh56]

Originally Posted by trickymost

Baltimore County - Padonia International Elementary : 2011 Maryland Report Card

The statistics tell no lies. I think the apartments around Padonia Elementary went section 8 in the late 90s or early 2000s. When I look at the MSA data for 5th grade (really the most important one for elementary), it averages around 77% proficient. In all the surrounding elementary schools except Warren, it's between 97-100%.

Likewise, in 2000 about 22% of students received free and reduced meals at Padonia. Last year, it was up to 45%. It's been going up steadily since 2000.

I know the school system in Maryland, trust me it's much worse in the declining schools up here than in MoCo.

It's interesting how that place has changed in the course of a decade in which I left long ago.

I left in 2001-02 when I was probably going into the 4th grade by that time to Gaithersburg, then finally in Bethesda which apparently was in the ranks with Howard in terms of good school districts. Though if I were to move back to the county (might not be anytime soon though) it would probably be Towson (which is doing much better than further North I believe?).

[trickymost]

Originally Posted by rsh56

It's interesting how that place has changed in the course of a decade in which I left long ago.

I left in 2001-02 when I was probably going into the 4th grade by that time to Gaithersburg, then finally in Bethesda which apparently was in the ranks with Howard in terms of good school districts. Though if I were to move back to the county (might not be anytime soon though) it would probably be Towson (which is doing much better than further North I believe?).

I think it's a county-wide problem, and it's going to affect everyone, especially Towson. There are several new schools being built in BC, and I suspect they will redistrict so that all the lower income housing feed the same schools. That, however, is a band-aid for an axe wound.

I'll avoid the rant, I'll admit I have no idea how to solve the problem, but the reality is equal access to education is not something the US or Maryland does well, and right or wrong, the low income kids are like leeches drawing on all the resources of public education. The more they leech, the more the middle and upper class families who can afford alternatives send their kids to private school, upsetting the balance in the public school system. As this cycle continues, property values get hit, there is more middle/upper class flight, and the public schools worsen.

Haves and have nots.

[rsh56]

I would agree that equal education is something both the state and the country aren't very good at grasping. It can happen anywhere.

I don't want to send my kids to a private school, I would want them to get exposure to all different kinds of diversity, ethnically and socially and etc. If I was a parent, I'd do enough research to make sure that my kids understand their peers regardless of race, economics, etc.

[Tiger Beer]

Where are you all checking out crime rates for the various suburbs? However, I agree with the general premise that any crime can happen anywhere. I personally feel that 'well-known good' suburbs just attract it in general.

That being said, having recently explored the Metro DC area, I also tapped into some of the Baltimore suburbs on the western side, and quite liked what I saw.

What do you all think of Cantonville, Arbutus, Halethorpe, and Elkridge....any particular one of those known for crime? They all seemed quite filled with just regular working people to me. Probably some crime, but nothing seemed to rise any spidey-senses from driving through them. I'm curious about those suburbs though.

[MrRational]

"We do the best we can with the children you send us" --A Teacher

Originally Posted by rsh56

I would agree that equal education is something both the state and the country aren't very good at grasping.

What they don't grasp is the distinction between education and social work.

The things which will make a school successful or not...
will not be found within the walls of the school or provided for by the BOE.

[trickymost]

Originally Posted by rsh56

I would agree that equal education is something both the state and the country aren't very good at grasping. It can happen anywhere.

I don't want to send my kids to a private school, I would want them to get exposure to all different kinds of diversity, ethnically and socially and etc. If I was a parent, I'd do enough research to make sure that my kids understand their peers regardless of race, economics, etc.

In principle, I agree with you. Diversity is desirable, and the best schools in the DC metro area - be in in NoVA or MoCo are quite diverse.

BCPS schools can have diversity, but the schools in trouble just have problems and distractions.

EG - would you want to send your kids to a school where 1-2 children each year are murdered as collateral damage in gang fights in section 8 housing? Where your child gets bullied, beaten up, and generally goes through the school day in a state of panic and fear because he/she is smart or because they're in the minority (caucasian, latino, asian, etc) in the classroom? Where at least a few times a year, their belongings are stolen from the classroom, sometimes by students' parents? Or where their food is stolen from them because other students are literally starving? Where there are so many fights and actions warranted of suspensions, that the principal doesn't suspend all the students for fear of exposing these issues through reporting data? Where the classrooms are so large that the teacher spends 70% of their time dealing with behavior management of 1-5 students, and your child is neglected simply because they aren't troublesome?

It's worst at elementary schools, and gets better at middle school because students are segmented by their potential and intelligence, but becomes an issue again in high school.

I