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I've a long memory, sir. Perhaps yours needs some refreshing:
Question asked, question answered.
For what its worth, I think your actions with volunteerism are laudable, if for no other reason than they make you feel better. Likewise, I believe, as you do, "Sometimes consequence is the best teacher for them, but for some, they just never change." Real consequences are real motivators, both for bad and for good. People don't change until life is more uncomfortable without change than it is with change.
The reasons for crime don't change, they are the same now as they have always been. What has changed in the past couple of generations is some societal attitudes towards crime. What was once to be feared and shunned is now accepted as a norm in some communities. Oddly enough, some law-abiding persons have come to believe they are somehow complicit, and feel guilty because of it. This has led to failed attempts to address the issue, not through punishment and restitution to victims, but through misguided experiments in "understanding" the criminal, and place blame anywhere but squarely on the perpetrator himself. Wrong headed.
I asked you if you were from Baltimore because I wanted to know if you understood what kind of city Baltimore is. Some people make assumptions about places they never been. It wasn't meant to be disrespectful.
Well we're talking about two different things. I am talking about and have been talking about the kids who could become criminals. I don't know how people deal with criminals, but I know that kids are much easier to keep out of trouble. I believe there is hope for everyone though, I think it ultimately comes down to whether they want to change. Once someone gets to a certain point in their life, then it is difficult to change their thought process unless they want to honestly change.
Here's the issue with what your example has. Can you guarantee that those two poor kids grow up in the same type of home with the some type of values or at least have the same types of positive influences around them? There are a lot of variables that go into this, which is why you can have kids growing up in the same household and go in opposite directions. I'm not excusing the behavior, I'm simply explaining where this behavior is coming from. There is no excuse for the behavior, but let's not pretend that these kids learning to be criminals is normal. There is something wrong with them thinking that this behavior is okay. What irritates me is some people in this thread will have you believe just because they are black, they are subject to being poor, ignorant and criminal. I'm black, grew up middle class, got a Masters Degree, married have children, and never been in trouble in my life. My skin color didn't have anything to do with me being a success or failure, it has been how I was raised and the expectation that my family had for me. Do you honestly think these same young men can relate to anything I've experienced or how I see life? You would be amazed at how difficult it is for me to relate to people like these young men because of different our upbringings may have been. Clearly skin color isn't what it's being made to be.
I think you and Westside are saying some of the same things. Among them, that the issue of young people engaging in criminal behavior is not all that simple to analyze. And a number of variables can lead to poor choices. Some variables include home and community environment. Others include the child's self-concept and motivation to be productive.
It's not all about how one is raised, because you can raise a child, using excellent parental skills and living an affluent lifestyle, and the child can turn to a life of crime. You can raise a child poorly and that child can turn out okay. Outside influences (peer pressure -- a middle school principal told me recently that peer pressure is more important than anything to children in that age range) and the child's character and personality also play into the choices he or she will make. The parents' role is to lay a foundation to minimize poor choices, but that doesn't always work. Other adults can help lay the foundation by being good role models, but that doesn't always work either.
That being said, a child with a poor self-esteem, poor role models and a tendency to gravitate towards the negative is at a higher risk of making poor choices.
Does the child make poor choices based upon home and community environment? Or does he make poor choices despite the home and community environment? Or does it depend on the child? Parents are not the only influencing factor, and we need to stop kidding ourselves into thinking that parenting is the be all and end all. It is extremely, crucially important, but when that child leaves the house, parents are not there and do not have much control beyond the foundation that they have hopefully laid.
I doubt seriously that no adult has never attempted to teach these young people right from wrong. They know the difference. Just because they know it doesn't mean they are going to apply this knowledge to real life situations.
Once, a woman in the mental health field told me that young black boys who are troubled often strike out at others, and young troubled white boys often turn inward and strike out at themselves. Of course these are not absolutes; we all know of exceptions to the "rule." But I see a lot of young people out here of all races hurting themselves and others, and we sit back stupidity and neurotically obssess over what race they are, and assign proportions to who has a tendency to commit higher rates of crime. Like that's going to solve the damn problem. No wonder our social structure is crumbling.
yea i know that area...near johns hopkins hosp. that areas crappy,but whats interesting to me about Bmore is one block will be nice, but then just drive a few miles down and its drug and crime filled, like near Loyala.
Actually some of us are getting quite annoyed with you being able to go anywhere you want.
We're starting to "notice" all the flash-robs happening across the country. We're starting to notice all the black biker weeks and black beech weeks and Orange Crushes happening during the spring and summer and the chaos they create. We're starting to notice the disproportionate murder rate, the rapes, the random assaults (to cherry pick an incident lets say the kid who got beat in Baltimore on St. Patrick's Day) and the phenomenon happening at Wal-Marts at midnight on the first of every month.
Weird huh? Weird that people are actually noticing all these things despite the media cover up. Shall we discuss why your schools are failing despite receiving extra funding and also while being led by black administrators and city governments? How can we explain that? Surely it's the fault of "The White Man"
Actually I'm quite open minded. I too was a naive liberal for almost a decade...that is until I got a home and a family to protect. I Wonder why it is that I don't live in the NE side of Baltimore or send my kids to a violent, failing school. I wonder why I have 3 guns in the home and why I give my wife lessons on how to use them. I'll tell ya what, it's not White people I'm worried about assaulting, raping, killing, etc. my family.
SSHHH! ITs not politically correct to speak the truth! Blacks were enslaved in America 150 years ago so that gives them the right to be as violent and racist as they want to be without anyone ever mentioning it!
You see how much coverage the Trayvon Martin revenge attacks have gotten in the media (sarcasm). I as a white man can't walk almost anywhere in Baltimore without most likey being assualted. Assualted because of the color of my skin and I am alone and vulnerable. Savages don't attack usually unless they have an overwhelming superiority in numbers. And then they attack without mercy or fear of any kind since they have apologists all over the country. Oh they made a mistake! They should be let out and continue to be a sponge on society and have children that will be the same!
You see how much coverage the Trayvon Martin revenge attacks have gotten in the media (sarcasm). I as a white man can't walk almost anywhere in Baltimore without most likey being assualted. Assualted because of the color of my skin and I am alone and vulnerable. Savages don't attack usually unless they have an overwhelming superiority in numbers. And then they attack without mercy or fear of any kind since they have apologists all over the country. Oh they made a mistake! They should be let out and continue to be a sponge on society and have children that will be the same!
OMG that's is beyond the pale. That is just absolute bull****. Stay in your basement and never leave.
OMG that's is beyond the pale. That is just absolute bull****. Stay in your basement and never leave.
But what if the savages learn how to open door knobs!!!!!!
No seriously, many of those comments are absurd, but so is the media coverage of race related issues. The Trayvon case was a national issue, with the mainstream and blog media assigning guilt and ruining a man's life (regardless of whether a jury finds him guilty) before Mr. Zimmerman was charged with a crime, and before the facts are even known.
Similar style assaults, attacks, murders, involving black on white motivated crime don't get the same press, or media sympathy. I hate to say that, but it is true. Look at what happened at the Milwakee State Fair.
Then around the closing time of 11 p.m., witnesses told the Journal Sentinel, dozens to hundreds of black youths attacked white people as they left the fair, punching and kicking people and shaking and pounding on their vehicles.
Witnesses, though, told the Journal Sentinel that the attacks appeared to be unprovoked and racially motivated.
"You could just tell they were after white people. That was the main thing. If you were white, they were coming after you," said Jon Stikl of Oak Creek.
"We noticed a group of five to 10 young black males run up and jump a young white male for no other reason then him being white," Stikl said.
They knocked him to the ground, and then a group of 15 black men kicked and stomped on him, Stikl said.
Reverse the races in that situation and can anyone honestly say the incident wouldn't have been viewed as a national travesty with thousands of people protesting and calling for heads on stakes? The names and faces of the perps shown round the clock so they could be castigated in the media?
Instead, this was just another story in the 24 hour news cycle.
Either racially motivated violence is just violence, or it is a "hate crime" that society should stamp out with all of its vigour. Right now we have a situation where white on black violence is like Emmett Till all over again, black on white violence, eh, just another crime.
Last edited by westsideboy; 05-10-2012 at 05:56 PM..
I'm not interested in discussing perceived inequalities of reporting hate-driven crimes, media bias, etc etc. There could be something to it, I don't know. It doesn't affect me, that much is sure.
I've just never felt threatened here in my 87% black neighborhood. I'm the one not living in crackerville, and yet consistently I'm told by those who don't to fear blacks because they're coming to steal my stuff and rape my family. My family's been in this neighborhood, and also been white, for 70 years. No raping and pillaging yet. Two crackheads (one white, one black) robbed my grandmother in 1993 (height of the crack epidemic). That's it.
I just give my actual, non-internet driven view from the ground of a lower-middle class neighborhood in blackland. We've got problems here, but being the target of race-driven violence? The least of my worries.
I'll leave it to everyone else to opine and fear, I've got too much **** to do to complain about the inequalities of what is and what is not a hate crime.
I'm not interested in discussing perceived inequalities of reporting hate-driven crimes, media bias, etc etc. There could be something to it, I don't know. It doesn't affect me, that much is sure.
I've just never felt threatened here in my 87% black neighborhood. I'm the one not living in crackerville, and yet consistently I'm told by those who don't to fear blacks because they're coming to steal my stuff and rape my family. My family's been in this neighborhood, and also been white, for 70 years. No raping and pillaging yet. Two crackheads (one white, one black) robbed my grandmother in 1993 (height of the crack epidemic). That's it.
I just give my actual, non-internet driven view from the ground of a lower-middle class neighborhood in blackland. We've got problems here, but being the target of race-driven violence? The least of my worries.
I'll leave it to everyone else to opine and fear, I've got too much **** to do to complain about the inequalities of what is and what is not a hate crime.
And I have felt threatened in my 95% white neighborhood. Criminals come in all colors, ages, genders, religions, etc.
That isn't the point. The point is that the media has created a double standard when comes to reporting on perceived racial motivation for crime. Maybe it isn't your issue. Honestly it isn't really mine, but I see it (I think you have to be blind not to,) don't think it is fair, and asked a reasonable question. If you don't want to answer, you don't have to.
And I have felt threatened in my 95% white neighborhood. Criminals come in all colors, ages, genders, religions, etc.
That isn't the point. The point is that the media has created a double standard when comes to reporting on perceived racial motivation for crime. Maybe it isn't your issue. Honestly it isn't really mine, but I see it (I think you have to be blind not to,) don't think it is fair, and asked a reasonable question. If you don't want to answer, you don't have to. There isn't any reason to give me crap for it though, especially if the topic doesn't interest you.
My apologies if it seemed like I was giving you crap for it, WSB. Just a tiring topic, for me.
How 'bout this from someone born and raised in Maryland, who spent 7 years in the Baltimore area.
What's wrong with Baltimore? Everything that is two blocks or more away from the Inner Harbor.
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