Moving to Baltimore : Anyone PGH or STL Ex-Pats that Can Give Me Some Neighborhood Comparisons? (Dundalk: to rent, crime rate)

[sleaziep]

Pittsburgh native, now living in St. Louis.. moving to Baltimore in August. Do we have any ex-pats that can draw some parallels for me if I describe the neighborhoods that are attractive to me? My partner got a teaching job at a university down town. I work from home so need a dedicated work space and we need a studio for art practice. Don't want to spend over $1500 - $1700 on rent. So we need at least 1500 sqft ++ and would prefer a yard. We want to rent a full house and have 2 dogs. So factoring in all of that...

Neighborhoods in PGH I lived in / liked:
Polish Hill, Lawrenceville, Bloomfield, Strip District, East Liberty, Garfield

(Oh also, which steelers bar is the best / close to city?)

Neighborhoods in STL I lived in / liked:
Benton Park, Cherokee, Grove, Tower Grove

Any similar neighborhoods in Baltimore? We prefer a diverse neighborhood and are heavily engaged in the arts. Don't mind a hood that is rough around the edges as long as it is not crazy dangerous. Thanks!!!

[trickymost]

Originally Posted by sleaziep

Pittsburgh native, now living in St. Louis.. moving to Baltimore in August. Do we have any ex-pats that can draw some parallels for me if I describe the neighborhoods that are attractive to me? My partner got a teaching job at a university down town. I work from home so need a dedicated work space and we need a studio for art practice. Don't want to spend over $1500 - $1700 on rent. So we need at least 1500 sqft ++ and would prefer a yard. We want to rent a full house and have 2 dogs. So factoring in all of that...

Neighborhoods in PGH I lived in / liked:
Polish Hill, Lawrenceville, Bloomfield, Strip District, East Liberty, Garfield

(Oh also, which steelers bar is the best / close to city?)

Neighborhoods in STL I lived in / liked:
Benton Park, Cherokee, Grove, Tower Grove

Any similar neighborhoods in Baltimore? We prefer a diverse neighborhood and are heavily engaged in the arts. Don't mind a hood that is rough around the edges as long as it is not crazy dangerous. Thanks!!!

I lived in Pittsburgh for a long time and live in Baltimore now. First, climate and geography aside, these two cities are nearly identical. Same blue collar roots, same size, similar history, roughly similar population.

You will also have no problems finding Steelers bars; you will get heckled a lot on Sundays during football season, although Pittsburgh has earned the bragging rights.

You don't have as many older, sub-urban neighborhoods within city limits as you do in Pittsburgh though...by that I mean places like McKees Rocks or Bloomfield.

To compare neighborhoods, I would say:

Strip District = Canton
East Liberty = Randallstown
Polish Hill = Dundalk
Bloomfield = Hamden

The trick for you is going to be finding a single family home in the city. Most neighborhoods, regardless of their character or proximity to the city, are brick rowhomes/townhomes.

If you are good with the idea of a rowhouse, where you probably won't have a yard AND off street parking, there are choices a plenty.

I don't know of too many neighborhoods in the city where you have a main drag and single family homes, but if the rowhome is ok, then there's lots of options for you, including:

Canton
Fells Point
Federal Hill
Mt Vernon
Mt Washington
Hamden
Acadia
Patterson Park

to name a few.

[ToneGrail]

Originally Posted by trickymost

I lived in Pittsburgh for a long time and live in Baltimore now. First, climate and geography aside, these two cities are nearly identical. Same blue collar roots, same size, similar history, roughly similar population.

You will also have no problems finding Steelers bars; you will get heckled a lot on Sundays during football season, although Pittsburgh has earned the bragging rights.

You don't have as many older, sub-urban neighborhoods within city limits as you do in Pittsburgh though...by that I mean places like McKees Rocks or Bloomfield.

To compare neighborhoods, I would say:

Strip District = Canton
East Liberty = Randallstown
Polish Hill = Dundalk
Bloomfield = Hamden

The trick for you is going to be finding a single family home in the city. Most neighborhoods, regardless of their character or proximity to the city, are brick rowhomes/townhomes.

If you are good with the idea of a rowhouse, where you probably won't have a yard AND off street parking, there are choices a plenty.

I don't know of too many neighborhoods in the city where you have a main drag and single family homes, but if the rowhome is ok, then there's lots of options for you, including:

Canton
Fells Point
Federal Hill
Mt Vernon
Mt Washington
Hamden
Acadia
Patterson Park

to name a few.

I'd agree with most of this except that East Liberty is more akin to Pimlico or the crappier part of Woodlawn, not Randallstown. It's a rough neighborhood.

[westsideboy]

I don't agree that Pittsburgh and Baltimore are similar....at all. The population numbers aren't close: Pittsburgh 305k, Baltimore 619k.

The demographics aren't close Pittsburgh city limits 65% white, Baltimore city limits 64% black. If you include the suburbs, this difference is magnified.

The crime rate isn't the same, especially the murder rate.

Pittsburgh overall crime: 409 Murder: 17
Baltimore overall crime: 681 Murder: 34

The geography isn't close. Pittsburgh is on the Appalachian Plateau, Baltimore is on the fall line between the Piedmont and Coastal Plain.

The architecture isn't close: Baltimore being primarily a rowhouse city, Pittsburgh's geography dicating many more freestanding houses and duplexes.

Sure, both are rust belt towns and have teams that play in the AFC North, but having lived equidistant between the two cities for most of life, and living just outside Baltimore for a year, I will say the similarity stops there for me.

[sobo16]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

The crime rate isn't the same, especially the murder rate.

Pittsburgh overall crime: 409 Murder: 17
Baltimore overall crime: 681 Murder: 34

What do these numbers mean? Are they some sort of rating or count? A murder count of 34 in Baltimore surely is a monthly count, not an annual or year-to-date count.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by sobo16

What do these numbers mean? Are they some sort of rating or count? A murder count of 34 in Baltimore surely is a monthly count, not an annual or year-to-date count.

Sorry, the numbers are from City-data and reflect crime rate per 100k residents.

[trickymost]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

I don't agree that Pittsburgh and Baltimore are similar....at all. The population numbers aren't close: Pittsburgh 305k, Baltimore 619k.

The demographics aren't close Pittsburgh city limits 65% white, Baltimore city limits 64% black. If you include the suburbs, this difference is magnified.

The crime rate isn't the same, especially the murder rate.

Pittsburgh overall crime: 409 Murder: 17
Baltimore overall crime: 681 Murder: 34

The geography isn't close. Pittsburgh is on the Appalachian Plateau, Baltimore is on the fall line between the Piedmont and Coastal Plain.

The architecture isn't close: Baltimore being primarily a rowhouse city, Pittsburgh's geography dicating many more freestanding houses and duplexes.

Sure, both are rust belt towns and have teams that play in the AFC North, but having lived equidistant between the two cities for most of life, and living just outside Baltimore for a year, I will say the similarity stops there for me.

"SNIP SNIP...having lived equidistant between the two cities for most of life"

That says it all. Unless you're poor, I don't think much of the statistics you mentioned are useful in judging the experience of living in both places - particularly about murder and about racial minorities, unless you're a minority planning on a move into the most blightest part of Baltimore from Pittsburgh.

A lot of people from Pittsburgh move to Baltimore, and a big reason why many of them put down roots is how much it reminds them of home, despite the fact one is in western PA and the other on the bay.

[NCOriolesfan]

Cherry Hill and East St Louis are similar in a lot of ways. My wife has a lot of people out in STL, been a few times, don't really like it. The only thing I know about Pittsburgh is if you are a rapist you can still be their quarterback.

[HandsUpThumbsDown]

Cherry hill is not a shining city on a hill, but it is leagues better than east st Louis, which is the most depressing place in the united states, by far. Cherry hill is a segregated residential neighborhood that is yet to be abandoned en masse; e st l is a failed and collapsed industrial city

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by trickymost

"SNIP SNIP...having lived equidistant between the two cities for most of life"

That says it all. Unless you're poor, I don't think much of the statistics you mentioned are useful in judging the experience of living in both places - particularly about murder and about racial minorities, unless you're a minority planning on a move into the most blightest part of Baltimore from Pittsburgh.

A lot of people from Pittsburgh move to Baltimore, and a big reason why many of them put down roots is how much it reminds them of home, despite the fact one is in western PA and the other on the bay.

Where ever you go, that is where you will be. I have no doubt self-centered, internal locus of control style people can cherry pick out any US city, move there, find a nook or cranny that reminds them of themselves, and their past experiences and proclaim that the two places are "similar."

All this means is that the person moving has found a comfort zone that suits themselves in both cities. It doesn't mean the cities are the same.

The stats I picked do mean something. Demographics matter, geography matters, population totals matter. They are objective measures we can use to compare places. The bigger world of both cities exists outside of one's subjective experiences, wants, and self-created delusions.

My perspective is one of largely an outsider, equidistant to both places. I have visted both more times than I can count. I lived in Towson for a year, and had many friend in Baltimore City. I have a good friend that has lived in Baltimore and Pittsburgh (I assure you, he sees no similarity what so ever) I know enough to see the glaring differences between the two places, but don't have a "horse in the race" so to speak, to go stump for.

Different people can have different opinions. I have a strong feeling if you go on the Pittsburgh forum and ask if their city is like Baltimore, the majority answer will not only be a resounding "NO!" but looks of utter "What is the H!ll are you talking about?"

This isn't a slight towards Baltimore, it is the truth as far as what the numbers say, and what this guy smack dap in the middle of the two places has experienced.