Crime/Safety Concerns for Patterson Park/Highlandtown (Baltimore: real estate, apartment)

[kungpow9960]

My wife and I are considering buying a rowhome in the Patterson Park/Highlandtown neighborhoods. Specifically, we've been generally focusing between Ellwood and Highland Ave and Lombard and Eastern Ave. We've found a nice place in the 100 block of S. Highland Ave, but we are wondering how concerned we should be about crime and safety in the neighborhood. Highland Ave is also busier than side streets, but is that something to be worried about?

For quick background: we currently rent in Mt. Vernon and have lived in Baltimore City for the past 5 years, so we are familiar with what to expect from living in Baltimore. But we don't have any experience living outside Mt. Vernon.

It seems that Highlandtown is progrssing along in its "transition" and that more rowhomes are getting renovated and families are moving in over time. But there still seems to be some distance to go before the atmosphere of Canton/Brewer's Hill (and those property values) reach that far north of Eastern Ave. However, I'd be interested to hear folks' opinions on this, too, as it's very tough for someone who doesn't live there to really get a handle on that.

We would ideally like to find a place to settle in for the next 5-10 years before contemplating what to do next, so what are people's thoughts as far as neighborhood property values over that rough time frame?

Thank in advance for the help and your thoughts.

[barante]

I defer to jonjj and other posters who actually live in East Baltimore. I have been in this burg, on and off, since 1969 but have always lived on the west side. However, I am pretty familiar with the east side as well.

Neighborhood turnaround in Baltimore, if it happens at all, takes an awfully long time, longer than in many other cities. About the only fast-track change in Baltimore at the moment is Station North.

If you are happy with the house you have found, go by your instincts. When you got married, you went by your heart and not what other people said. Same same here. They are not in your shoes.

If you wait, the surrounding area may improve. If it does, you will pay more. That's for sure.

Greektown, east of Highlandtown, is getting hot, meaning that speculation has begun. The same may eventually happen on Highland Avenue, but it will take time. IMO it is one of the better wide streets in the area.

I see the retail core along Eastern Avenue changing, becoming more Hispanic. While such a transition may involve some cultural issues -- like mariachi music -- hardworking immigrants are not a bad thing. Remember, they are in this country to realize their American dreams.

Much of Greektown and Highlandtown real estate is driven by its real or perceived proximity to Canton. Your location, of course, is not on the water but it has many attractions.

One is its closeness to Patterson Park, a wonderful park that is safe and increasingly utilized by the kind of people you would want as your neighbors. Then there is Roman's, a throwback tavern into the 1940s on Decker, south of Baltimore Street. I go almost every Friday, when ink-stained former newsaper wretches gather for a good, cheap lunch there.

Other attractions: The Creative Alliance on Eastern and DiPasquale's Italian grocery on Gough. Another destination for time travel is Venice Tavern, on Conkling. Haven't been there for years. Last time I visited, they still had a picture of Franklin D. Roosevelt behind the cash register.

Go for it.

[L in sobo]

I used to live off of Foster Avenue.. which is south of where you are looking at but pretty close. I used to walk from Foster to the post office on Highland Avenue, to the library on Eastern (which is brand new and fantastic) over to Gaffneys on Highland Ave (we still drive over there to get our crabs from Gaffneys- love that place!). Spartan Pizza on Conkling which has good cheap pizza and great baklava and also over to Mathews Pizza on Eastern Avenue. Also- DiPasquales, Annabelle Lee Tavern, G and A hotdogs (awesome- on Diners,Driveins and Dives) and Laughing Pint are all in that area. I miss living over there for all of the reasons above.

My two cents: it is a nice area. People are polite and friendly. The area has character. I used to shop at the Highland Market on Eastern Avenue- it is a clean and affordable private grocery store.

I dont see any negatives really and I would move back over there in a heartbeat. I like living in Federal Hill/Sobo and I have made more friends over this way but the SouthEast has alot of character and charm. It is a more diverse area- more hispanics, a wider range of ecomonic backgrounds and I never felt like I was part of a community- I never found my niche of people to hang out with... but I probably just didnt get out enough. I know that there is a Highlandtown Wine festival that is pretty popular and hidden bars (I heard there was bar that was part hardware store- part bar but I never found it).

I have a few close friends that grew up in Highlandtown in the area that you are looking at that said that the neighborhood was very family friendly in the 80's then took a a downturn but is making a comeback now with new people moving in.

As far as crime is concerned- I dont know about the specific blocks you are looking at- but I never felt unsafe althougth as you know- you always have to be careful. Zack Sowers lived over in Highlandtown which was devasting and really shook up the neighborhood and should always be a reminder that no matter how much you love your neighborhood- you have to always keep your guard up.

[L in sobo]

Originally Posted by kungpow9960

My wife and I are considering buying a rowhome in the Patterson Park/Highlandtown neighborhoods. Specifically, we've been generally focusing between Ellwood and Highland Ave and Lombard and Eastern Ave. We've found a nice place in the 100 block of S. Highland Ave,.

Sorry, I didnt realize in my last post which block you were referencing... my bad.


That is pretty far north. I would suggest closer to the park or closer to Eastern Avenue if that is possible although I would live there for the right house and the right deal. There was always alot of foot traffic on Lombard when I was over there- people going to Santonis. I dont know what parking is like over there- on Foster we had a ton of available parking due to the empty lots behind the houses. Might want to check into that as well.


Also- there was some prostitue activity on Conkling- when driving to work I would see the same girls walking around. There is a seedy strip club on Haven street as well. Haven place? Not a reason not to buy.. but you need to know about what you are getting into.

Also- there is a big retail center being built on Boston Street with a Harris Teeter, Ann Talylor etc. I am jealous- that would be great to have over in South Baltimore. Not to mention the ice skating rink in Patterson park, wonderful tennis courts- we used to play every weekend in the spring, and duckpin bowling on Eastern avenue. My husband loves living in Sobo due to the close proximity of the stadiums (insane sports fan) but I am not fond of the partying, overabundance of pub food and the cut-throat parking situation. I miss the SouthEast because of everything that it offers over there....

[ltong1009]

While Highlandtown is making progress, I'd try to get as close to the park and/or Eastern Ave as possible. More from a re-sale perspective than a safety one.

[kungpow9960]

Thanks everyone for your input. Please keep it coming; all thoughts and opinions are welcome.

Yes, the house is fairly far north on Highland Ave. But it's a pretty large home, compared to many of the other places we've seen listed (1400+ sq feet, 2 beds, 3 baths, finished basement), and was taken down to the studs. It also has a detached garage, although it's being used now for storage. We'd convert it back, probably.

So it's definitely a tug of war between a house we really like and its location relatively far north on Highland Ave. We're trying to fully think through the trade off. I'm not expecting Canton's prices to suddenly show up in Highlandtown, but I'm also wary of buying a house I won't be able to re-sell down the road. Of course, that's one of the big questions for all home purchases!

[jonjj]

The 100 block of south Highland is fine. That is two blocks south of Baltimore Street. Just drive around or walk around that area and you will see plenty of rehab work occuring. One home at the corner of Baltimore and East Avenue just sold for 230.

The issues you will have on Highland will be trash and lots of traffic: both pedestrian and automobile. As you venture east of Highland Avenue--stay south of Pratt Street. The areas north and East of that are a little tougher and more crime may occur. Although Santonis is over there and it is a nice little grocery store.

[JamPilot]

Speaking of the area, anyone know what's going on with that large industrial looking building on Lombard and Ellwood just east of Patterson Park? There's a lot of construction right there - looks like they're rehabbing that building maybe?

[jg1876]

The large industrial building is a former school that's being converted into an apartment building with its own parking garage. My guess is when that is completed, that will play a large role in the revitalization of Highlandtown.

[barante]

kungpow9960 -- If you are serious, move fast. Lots of stuff going on, including this one from boosters Who’s hot? Highlandtown’s hot.

As to Highland Avenue being a busy street, once you move in you will sleep through fire engines and other stuff. We did when we lived on Union Square. The only thing I always suconsciously counted was the number of gunshots. Ah, only six, and I turned over.

Several factors make a good neighborhood. A house you like, neighbors, interesting places to visit. The house you are interested in meets all those criteria. Congratulations, and good luck.