Stepped up police patrols isn't the answer. (Baltimore, Mayo: section 8, real estate market)

[are you kidinme?]

"Even with the stepped up enforcement, the violence continues across the city. A 26-year-old man was shot in the chest Tuesday evening along Pimlico Road."

Baltimore Police Commissioner Steps Up Patrols After Outbreak Of Violence « CBS Baltimore

How do the Feds and the NYPD investigate outlaw motorcycle gangs, terror cells or the mob? They certainly don't have cops in uniform riding around in patrol cars hoping that they luckily stumble upon a shooting in progress.

They use intell, infiltration and turning gang members to take down violent gangs. Of course, this is police work at a more sophisticated level; something the Baltimore Police are clearly unable to do. We hired a new Police Commissioner and this is what he comes up with? Throw more uni's at it. To be effective using this approach, the city would literally have to put a police officer on every corner of every street in many neighborhoods.

C'mon Commissioner, get serious. Stop using this increase in violent crime to increase the number of police officers on the BPD. Be smarter with the people you have.

[Infinite_heights77]

I agree!!

[mrboltonman]

Originally Posted by are you kidinme?

They use intell, infiltration and turning gang members to take down violent gangs.

The Fed just breaks the 4th Amendment. Not sure about New York City.

A problem with Baltimore is that the crime is not sophisticated. It's thugs on the street shooting at each other hitting random people in the process or randomly robbing, beating, etc.

Increase the standard of living by education (which doesn't seem to be working on a large enough scale) or an exodus of the poor will change things. Having large concentrations of poor just compounds the problems and seems harder to change the behavior of the people. It feeds on itself.

Boston had worse problems than Baltimore and reduced their property tax rate which caused the city to turn around, I read.

[are you kidinme?]

...or an exodus of the poor will change things. Having large concentrations of poor just compounds the problems and seems harder to change the behavior of the people. It feeds on itself.

Got it. We'll sit back and wait for the poor to leave. Thanks.

[mrboltonman]

Originally Posted by are you kidinme?

...or an exodus of the poor will change things. Having large concentrations of poor just compounds the problems and seems harder to change the behavior of the people. It feeds on itself.

Got it. We'll sit back and wait for the poor to leave. Thanks.

You don't tho.

I support getting rid of subsidized housing projects. Shortly after reduce the property tax rate. I could see all the section 8 landlords jumping out of their rental properties and people buying their first homes.

[InDC]

Originally Posted by mrboltonman

I support getting rid of subsidized housing projects. Shortly after reduce the property tax rate. I could see all the section 8 landlords jumping out of their rental properties and people buying their first homes.

Yes, that is a good start. When we look to our southern neighbor today we forget that back in the 80's and early 90's DC had a horrible crime and murder rate. There, a combination of factors, very little of which had to do with the police, led to a drastic reduction in crime.

Like Bolton notes, the real estate market can have a tremendous impact on neighborhoods. The more owners you get in a community the more they will look after their property and their neighbor's property as well. When you have an ownership stake in your home the calculation about if and when to call the cops or go on neighborhood patrol or form a citizens group all changes.

As Bolton knows, the Bolton Hill neighborhood of Baltimore has an incredibly active neighborhood association, and folks in the neighborhood are encouraged to call 911 at the slightest suspicion of mischief. People in that neighborhood have a huge stake in the safety and security of the streets there.

In DC, under Mayor Williams, there was an explicit focus away from downtown and on the neighborhoods, particularly neighborhood housing. The theory was that downtown would take care of itself (it did), but the neighborhoods needed help in getting rid of troubled housing and bringing in affordable but also market rate units. If you were at 7th and Florida in DC 15 years ago it was just like Pennsylvania and North here in Baltimore today. The city went in and leveraged some of the property it owned or controlled, did major streetscape and infrastructure improvements, brought enforcement actions against recalcitrant landlords, and undertook a strong community development program under the Neighborhood Action program. Unlike here in Baltimore, all of this stuff was real. It took years to accomplish what you see in that neighborhood now, but it was all based on getting people to live, work, and enjoy that area. It happened all across the city in different neighborhoods, but using the same formula. It takes time, commitment, and above all political will. Long-term, real, political will and leadership. Tony Williams was probably one of the most unpopular mayors in DC history, but he and his team got the sh*t done.

Neighborhoods like Shaw, H Street NE, NoMa, North Capitol/Ekington, and many others that are hugely popular today were real bad areas in the early 1990's.

When the Williams administration said it wanted to attract 10,000 new residents it actually went about systematically doing something about it. Here in Baltimore? Not so much. Saying it does not make it happen.

I feel sorry for the new police commissioner because the lack of political leadership at the top in this city is what will keep crime high here.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by mrboltonman

The Fed just breaks the 4th Amendment. Not sure about New York City.

A problem with Baltimore is that the crime is not sophisticated. It's thugs on the street shooting at each other hitting random people in the process or randomly robbing, beating, etc.

Increase the standard of living by education (which doesn't seem to be working on a large enough scale) or an exodus of the poor will change things. Having large concentrations of poor just compounds the problems and seems harder to change the behavior of the people. It feeds on itself.

Boston had worse problems than Baltimore and reduced their property tax rate which caused the city to turn around, I read.

Very true and they got rid of the rent regulations too. Investments flowed in, rents went up but level off. The city is expensive at its core but it's more middle class overall.

I agree with your post either get rid of the poor or change how you deal with them. More police is not the answer.

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by InDC

Yes, that is a good start. When we look to our southern neighbor today we forget that back in the 80's and early 90's DC had a horrible crime and murder rate. There, a combination of factors, very little of which had to do with the police, led to a drastic reduction in crime.

Like Bolton notes, the real estate market can have a tremendous impact on neighborhoods. The more owners you get in a community the more they will look after their property and their neighbor's property as well. When you have an ownership stake in your home the calculation about if and when to call the cops or go on neighborhood patrol or form a citizens group all changes.

As Bolton knows, the Bolton Hill neighborhood of Baltimore has an incredibly active neighborhood association, and folks in the neighborhood are encouraged to call 911 at the slightest suspicion of mischief. People in that neighborhood have a huge stake in the safety and security of the streets there.

In DC, under Mayor Williams, there was an explicit focus away from downtown and on the neighborhoods, particularly neighborhood housing. The theory was that downtown would take care of itself (it did), but the neighborhoods needed help in getting rid of troubled housing and bringing in affordable but also market rate units. If you were at 7th and Florida in DC 15 years ago it was just like Pennsylvania and North here in Baltimore today. The city went in and leveraged some of the property it owned or controlled, did major streetscape and infrastructure improvements, brought enforcement actions against recalcitrant landlords, and undertook a strong community development program under the Neighborhood Action program. Unlike here in Baltimore, all of this stuff was real. It took years to accomplish what you see in that neighborhood now, but it was all based on getting people to live, work, and enjoy that area. It happened all across the city in different neighborhoods, but using the same formula. It takes time, commitment, and above all political will. Long-term, real, political will and leadership. Tony Williams was probably one of the most unpopular mayors in DC history, but he and his team got the sh*t done.

Neighborhoods like Shaw, H Street NE, NoMa, North Capitol/Ekington, and many others that are hugely popular today were real bad areas in the early 1990's.

When the Williams administration said it wanted to attract 10,000 new residents it actually went about systematically doing something about it. Here in Baltimore? Not so much. Saying it does not make it happen.

I feel sorry for the new police commissioner because the lack of political leadership at the top in this city is what will keep crime high here.

Excellent post. I fear things are different in DC though. In DC, Anthony Williams could win drawing from Whites and the Ward 4 old established Black middle class. He didn't have to cater to the poor radical blacks east of the river. Ditto for Fenty. Fenty's mistake was he alienated Ward 4 Blacks creating an opening for the current mayor. In Baltimore politics are dominated by catering to radical Black elements. When I used to listen to the Larry Young show it was a litany of endless complaints about police, no rec centers, the White man is trying to take over the city etc.

I just don't think Baltimore could ever elect someone like Anthony Williams. They'd be branded an Uncle Tom or something.
.

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

...either get rid of the poor or change how you deal with them.

NC has just eviscerated the unemployment program.
Many believe it is about motivating the unemployed to head on out.

At some point it will become like a Chinese fire drill.

[InDC]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

Excellent post. I fear things are different in DC though. In DC, Anthony Williams could win drawing from Whites and the Ward 4 old established Black middle class. He didn't have to cater to the poor radical blacks east of the river. Ditto for Fenty. Fenty's mistake was he alienated Ward 4 Blacks creating an opening for the current mayor. In Baltimore politics are dominated by catering to radical Black elements. When I used to listen to the Larry Young show it was a litany of endless complaints about police, no rec centers, the White man is trying to take over the city etc.

I just don't think Baltimore could ever elect someone like Anthony Williams. They'd be branded an Uncle Tom or something.
.

Good history of DC electoral politics. One other thing to recall, though, is that Williams won that 1998 primary in a crowded field of Evans (white councilman from almost exclusively white Ward 3), Brazil (african american at-large councilman) and Chavois (african american from almost exclusively black Ward 7). You are absolutely right that the way Williams won that race was drawing from whites who where distrustful of Evans and Ward 4 and 5 middle class african americans. (Interesting side-story about how Williams got Harry Thomas, Sr.'s support and thus locked up the only real political machine at the time which was Ward 5 dems. Harry Jr. has imploded.)

Also, although turnout in Ward 8, the city's poorest, was traditionally miniscule, the middle class and upper middle class african americans from Wards 4 and 5 would look to see how candidates treated those potential voters. Williams spent a ton of time in Ward 8 that summer, not for the Ward 8 votes but for the Ward 4 and 5 ones. Is that dynamic at play here in Baltimore?

The other thing he had going for him is that there was no incumbent in that race. I think that if SRB were to decide to not run again for the good of the city (fat chance) or if something better came along (isn't Cummings getting on in years?) and she were not on the ballot we could get someone like Williams who could squeak through a low-turnout primary.