A few questions about row houses. (Baltimore: fit in, to rent, insurance)

[CDJD]

Hi everyone,

I am considering a job in Baltimore, and when looking at the housing stock I saw all of your wonderful row houses! Looking online, I'm seeing what look like some wonderful neighborhoods that include characteristics that I find desirable.

In researching these homes, I've been unable to come up with answers to a few questions about these homes, and I was hoping you all could help me out.

1) I can't really seem to come up with how wide the living spaces tend to be for these home. For example, 46 East Montgomery Street, Baltimore MD - Trulia & 44 East Wheeling Street, Baltimore MD - Trulia don't say how wide they are, but it they appear to be a small enough for me to want to ask. Some of them look like a love seat, coffee table, and pathway to walk barely fit.

2) These homes appear to share walls with one another. If so, do owners agree to terms of upkeep prior to purchase? Is there are cash reserve, or some sort of emergency fund, typically kept between owners in case of damage/needed repair?

3) These homes look to have been well built, but how is all of the old cement, brick, wood/timber holding up? These homes aren't due to crumble any time soon, right? Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I've never lived in a 100+ year-old home.

4) Being older homes, how do these walls do in regards to noise? I'd assume that neighbors would be able to hear shouting, but what about dinner party-type noise (e.g. multiple conversations, laughing, etc.) or watching a loud movie?

5) I haven't seen any listings that include deeded on-street parking. Is it possible to purchases a parking space? If not, is parking typically difficult to find in areas like Federal Hill or Mt Vernon? How often do cars need to be shuffled for street sweepers, if at all?

6) Would you consider Baltimore dog friendly? Are dogs allowed in the parks and waterfront?

I'd be appreciative of any answers and/or any experiences.

Thanks!

[MrRational]

Originally Posted by CDJD

1) how wide the living spaces tend to be for these home.

MOST are very (very!) narrow. 12 feet

2) These homes appear to share walls with one another. If so...

utter anarchy prevails.

3) These homes look to have been well built...

most were never meant for more than subsistence housing for mill workers.

4) Being older homes, how do these walls do in regards to noise?

about what you would think

5) I haven't seen any listings that include deeded on-street parking.

deeded. that's funny. nor are there anyweher near enough spots for the cars

6) Would you consider Baltimore dog friendly?
Are dogs allowed in the parks and waterfront?

It varies... but overall very good LINK

[Hamish Forbes]

The term "row house" covers a lot of ground, so you probably need to look at individual cases rather than try to characterize all row houses with a broad brush.

Older ones and cheaper ones are especially narrow -- this has to do with the limits of wooden floor joists to span the width of the house. Newer and more expensive houses often have one of more steel I-beams to carry the load, so they can be wider. For example, corner houses in Idlewood (built circa 1950) were about 18 feet wide, and had on I-beam in the basement across the middle of the house. Some of the houses built circa 1920 around City College and old Memorial Stadium, for example on East 29th Street, seem to me to have been wider than this, but I don't know the exact measurement.

Parking can make life in a row house miserable. In the 1960's, a full-size Chevrolet was about 18 feet long, which meant, of course, that it didn't fit in front of a 12-foot-wide row house. People were very nasty and defensive about parking places, to the point of fist-fights in some Baltimore neighborhoods, especially after a snow storm.

Noise depends greatly on the quality of the house -- most of the better houses weren't too bad -- as does durability. Some, maybe even most, were built to last indefinitely, hundreds of years. On the other hand, destructive people can destroy any kind of housing in short order, as you may observe by touring some of Baltimore's now-seedy neighborhoods.

About dogs. Your neighbor's interminably barking dog left unattended in the backyard is literally only a few feet from your bedroom windows. This, too, can make living in a row house an absolute misery.

The bottom line for me: when I was a kid in Baltimore, everybody I knew who had a row house wished that he didn't, and couldn't wait to move out to the County.

[CDJD]

Thanks.

Originally Posted by MrRational

MOST are very (very!) narrow. 12 feet

That could be tough, but it seems as though it could be manageable. Twelve feet is certainly pushing it though!

Originally Posted by MrRational

utter anarchy prevails.

This was possibly my biggest concern. How does this work? Do people just sue their common wall neighbor and hope that the court rules that they don't have the right to allow their half of the property to crumble?

Originally Posted by MrRational

deeded. that's funny. nor are there anyweher near enough spots for the cars

Rough, but typical city problem, I suppose.

Originally Posted by MrRational

It varies... but overall very good

That's good to here!

[CDJD]

Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes

The term "row house" covers a lot of ground, so you probably need to look at individual cases rather than try to characterize all row houses with a broad brush.

I meant similar to the two homes that I posted links to.

Older ones and cheaper ones are especially narrow -- this has to do with the limits of wooden floor joists to span the width of the house. Newer and more expensive houses often have one of more steel I-beams to carry the load, so they can be wider. For example, corner houses in Idlewood (built circa 1950) were about 18 feet wide, and had on I-beam in the basement across the middle of the house. Some of the houses built circa 1920 around City College and old Memorial Stadium, for example on East 29th Street, seem to me to have been wider than this, but I don't know the exact measurement.

While 12 feet wide isn't what I would consider ideal, a twelve foot wide living room wouldn't be too out of the ordinary for dense city living. I can't really imagine being comfortable in anything less though.

Parking can make life in a row house miserable. In the 1960's, a full-size Chevrolet was about 18 feet long, which meant, of course, that it didn't fit in front of a 12-foot-wide row house. People were very nasty and defensive about parking places, to the point of fist-fights in some Baltimore neighborhoods, especially after a snow storm.

This is precisely the predicament I imagined when I asked the question! I'm not a fighter, but I also know what it's like to have to walk five blocks to my house after I've already parked in the snow... kinda defeats the purpose of driving your car home.

Noise depends greatly on the quality of the house -- most of the better houses weren't too bad -- as does durability. Some, maybe even most, were built to last indefinitely, hundreds of years. On the other hand, destructive people can destroy any kind of housing in short order, as you may observe by touring some of Baltimore's now-seedy neighborhoods.

True.

About dogs. Your neighbor's interminably barking dog left unattended in the backyard is literally only a few feet from your bedroom windows. This, too, can make living in a row house an absolute misery.

True, again. My dog doesn't bark though and is a wonderful neighbor!

The bottom line for me: when I was a kid in Baltimore, everybody I knew who had a row house wished that he didn't, and couldn't wait to move out to the County.

While I certainly understand the draw of country living for many, I view the inconveniences more than I'm willing to compromise. Perhaps an old row house isn't for me, but I will always think that the neighborhoods that they make up are very endearing.

...

[jrh0341]

Parking: hahah haha hahaha. If you look, you can find a few spots where the owner has managed to get/build some sort of private garage. Otherwise, get home early/expect to circle the block three times.

Noise: Can't speak for all homes, but where I stay, non-issue. The old original work is still there, with renovation done over it, so you get a thick layer of noise insulating building materials between living spaces. I almost never hear my neighbors.

Now, I am not saying YOU will never hear your neighbors, but if you are honestly worried about occasional noise, you'll have other priorities. Your noise concerns are going to come from Baltimore city buses, trucks, ambulances, police cars, helicopters etc. noise through the wall won't even be a blip on the radar.

[deeliz]

Rowhouses vary from block to block so I wouldn't make any general assumptions about all rowhouses based on one or two that you have seen. You really just need to look at a variety of properties. With respect to parking, at least in Federal Hill where I have lived for the past 10 years, many newer rehabs have parking pads in the back. In fact, I wouldn't purchase a home that does not have one. That being said, my house does not have offstreet parking and with the exception of Friday/Saturday evenings (after 7) or during Ravens games, it's never really an issue. You can also purchase a monthly spot in one of the city garages (West St or Wall St in Federal Hill.) It may be a couple of blocks from your house, but you know that you are always guaranteed a spot. For me personally, the benefits and convenience of having the entire city within a walk/bike ride away far outweigh some of the hassles of downtown living.

[drive carephilly]

Originally Posted by CDJD

This was possibly my biggest concern. How does this work? Do people just sue their common wall neighbor and hope that the court rules that they don't have the right to allow their half of the property to crumble?

I own a row in Philly - I don't think Baltimore is much different but rowhomes are typically NOT condos. There's no HOA. It's all fee simple.

In any case, I think you're over-thinking it. The partition wall is masonry. As long as you keep it dry there's usually not much to worry about. It also usually rises above the roof line so there's a clear delineation of where one house ends and the other begins. Whenever I had the roofers at my house I always made sure that sealed a few feet over the line on to my neighbors roof.

If you have water issues with your neighbor and they're uncooperative it's best to let your insurance company handle it.

[goldenage1]

Originally Posted by CDJD

3) These homes look to have been well built, but how is all of the old cement, brick, wood/timber holding up? These homes aren't due to crumble any time soon, right? Sorry if that's a stupid question, but I've never lived in a 100+ year-old home.

You should be aware of the form-stone issue. In some of the cheaper homes, the mortar did start to crumble. So the owners covered the outside with colored cement that looks like stone-- AKA Formstone. Formstone is ugly by today's standards, but if you remove it, you expose the crumbling mortar beneath, and the house will be drafty.

You should also be aware of the "ground-rent" issue. In some cases, you do not own the land underneath the house. The developer owns the land, and you continue to pay about $150/year in ground rent. You should always ask if you would own the house in fee simple, or if there is a ground rent. I think the current law is that you can buy out the ground rent for a few thousand dollars (typically). A ground rent is not condo ownership, as the owner of the ground rent has no responsibility for maintenance.

[Bong477]

1) Variable. The one we lived in wasn't bad, others we looked at were pretty tight.

2) Hope they don't need repair. Not much reason they should.

3) In the better neighborhoods where people maintain their homes they generally hold up fine. If you neglect a home for years, it will run into trouble. Period.

4) We never heard our next door neighbors on either side in 3 years. Ever. Heard pretty much everything from the street though, probably largely due to our crappy windows.

5) Parking is pretty easy during the day, after people get home from work it can suck. Some areas are significantly worse than others, depends on location. Some rowhomes have a parking spot behind them (usually accessible from an alley). This is a desirable feature for sure. It wasn't a must have when we were looking for a place, but if it would be if I ever had to look for another. There are some parking spots out there to rent, but its not widespread. Where we lived there were no street sweeping days or any parking restrictions at all. Some areas require permits to park more than a few hours or to park on days where there is a sports event.

6) Its pretty dog friendly.