The "Fells Point/Harbor East is about to become unlivable for 2 years" thread (Baltimore: organic, to live)

[kharing]

Originally Posted by HarborEastGuy

Another troll. Who cares when I found out. That does not change the fact that building
on a toxic waste site before excavating all of the contaminated soil is reckless. Try focusing
on the issues instead of poking at the person raising important issues like:

Why is the City cutting corners by not mandating that the soil be removed first?

I can't understand why you missed out on the issues with the site. Regardless, the EPA has been very involved in the process.

If you are a renter in the area and are concerned, it is fortunate that you have the ability to move.

[cdmoore125]

Originally Posted by kharing

I can't understand why you missed out on the issues with the site. Regardless, the EPA has been very involved in the process.

If you are a renter in the area and are concerned, it is fortunate that you have the ability to move.

I kind of have to agree with this.

I am still pretty amazed that you never heard anything about this. I am not in favor of the development, but the developer did have a bunch of local meetings in addition to discussion with Councilman Kraft (IIRC). And the traffic/TIF was so much discussion for so long last year.

I don't want 3 arms more than anyone else, but I'm certainly not qualified to doubt environmental engineers. That would make me a troll. Show me your PE and degrees.

And while I agree that there may have been some funny business, it was all over everywhere. And please don't say your excuse is you work 60-70 hours a week, because I work far more and travel. That discussion leads to a pissing match.

[barante]

So how does this work?

The site was supposed to be capped. Now it will be punctured.

And in another ten to thirty years rising water levels will make waves wash over the Excelon site, releasing all kinds of harmful substances.

[HarborEastGuy]

You would be surprised how many people don't know about this. I've talked to a lot of people in the area that had no idea. They work a lot and don't watch TV very often. I remember asking someone a year ago about what the empty lot was for and I was told they tore down an old factory but they'll never be able to build on it so they put a parking lot on it. I saw the parking lots and never gave it another thought until I saw the air monitoring station at the Black Olive Inn.

Case in point, barante appears to be reading something new from this thread. I created it to inform people what was going on.

So what that I didn't know how bad it was. That doesn't change the fact that it's a huge problem that I had no part of creating. I really don't see what benefit people are getting by repeatedly bringing up the fact that I should have known about it long before now..

[remstone]

Originally Posted by HarborEastGuy

I really don't see what benefit people are getting by repeatedly bringing up the fact that I should have known about it long before now..

Look, your goal here is to turn this into a thread about the risks of the project instead of it being about you. That's a bit tough given the approach you keep taking and there's been some clear earlier (it must be said) ignorance on your part. But just leave that alone and do some research to bring here if you really want to "inform" us of what's going on. So far it's been a lot of chicken little stuff and baseless accusation or conjecture. Barante is a pretty bright guy - it's not that you've told him something new, more that he's giving you an existing area of doubt in his mind (and others' too) ... that you can now go research.

[HarborEastGuy]

Originally Posted by remstone

Look, your goal here is to turn this into a thread about the risks of the project instead of it being about you. That's a bit tough given the approach you keep taking and there's been some clear earlier (it must be said) ignorance on your part. But just leave that alone and do some research to bring here if you really want to "inform" us of what's going on. So far it's been a lot of chicken little stuff and baseless accusation or conjecture. Barante is a pretty bright guy - it's not that you've told him something new, more that he's giving you an existing area of doubt in his mind (and others' too) ... that you can now go research.

I took no such approach. People have decided to continually make a huge issue out the fact that I am just learning about this now.. Who cares that I just learned about it. Stop rehashing this irrelevant point of "when I learned about this" and talk about the real issues:

The city did not remove the contaminated soil before beginning construction which is dangerous.
People should be aware and take an active role in watching for releases of toxic chemicals via dust and water runoff into the harbor.
People should not trust the developer to self-monitor himself.

[cdmoore125]

Originally Posted by HarborEastGuy

You would be surprised how many people don't know about this. I've talked to a lot of people in the area that had no idea. They work a lot and don't watch TV very often. I remember asking someone a year ago about what the empty lot was for and I was told they tore down an old factory but they'll never be able to build on it so they put a parking lot on it. I saw the parking lots and never gave it another thought until I saw the air monitoring station at the Black Olive Inn.

Case in point, barante appears to be reading something new from this thread. I created it to inform people what was going on.

So what that I didn't know how bad it was. That doesn't change the fact that it's a huge problem that I had no part of creating. I really don't see what benefit people are getting by repeatedly bringing up the fact that I should have known about it long before now..

I don't watch TV; I don't have cable. I work a lot.

The benefit is that you, me, Joe down the street, and everyone else in the city has missed their chance to voice their concern, BUT we all can do something the next time. Don't spend so much time on the opportunity you missed. I encourage you to be abreast of everything that may affect you. Don't miss the next opportunity as there will be many. This is a learning opportunity.

[kharing]

Originally Posted by HarborEastGuy

I really don't see what benefit people are getting by repeatedly bringing up the fact that I should have known about it long before now..

When you choose the name HarborEastGuy, expect people to question why you didn't know anything about the project.

[HarborEastGuy]

Originally Posted by cdmoore125

I don't watch TV; I don't have cable. I work a lot.

The benefit is that you, me, Joe down the street, and everyone else in the city has missed their chance to voice their concern, BUT we all can do something the next time. Don't spend so much time on the opportunity you missed. I encourage you to be abreast of everything that may affect you. Don't miss the next opportunity as there will be many. This is a learning opportunity.

I disagree:

1. People should be aware and take an active role in watching for releases of toxic chemicals
via dust and water runoff into the harbor.

2. People should not trust the developer to self-monitor himself.

[pokeable]

Originally Posted by baltplanner

Your complaints are a classic example of NIMBYism. This project will create jobs, tax revenues (that is after the TIFF period), a new beautiful waterfront park, and will grow and enhance two already amazing neighborhoods (Harbor East and Fells point). Not to mention new construction tends to add excitement and sense that city isn't just stagnant.

I loovvvveee the idea that we're creating and growing high end neighborhoods. Who knows, if we get enough wealthy, taxpaying, law abiding people actually living and working in this city we may be able to shake off some of the ghetto culture that has crippled it for so long.

In short I think you're complaints are alarmist (I've been reading alot about this project.. the environmental dangers have been dealt with appropriately). Your other complaints about construction disturbance are true of any large capital project.

OUT WITH THE OLD AND IN WITH THE NEW. HERE HERE FOR A NEW BALTIMORE!

O.o

Do you really have an architectural/Urban planning degree?

While I would love further expansion of the "feel" of Harbor East, do you think that the current feeders into/out of Fells and Harbor East can support a 27 acre mixed use development, from what I remember of the initial proposal, would include 1500-2000 multifamily units?

Saturday, Sunday morning, it takes about 12 minutes to get from 70 E to exit 50 off I95 N. It takes about 15 minutes to get from the 95 exit to Pratt, President, and Aliceanna or Fleet to Fells. I shudder to think how long it would take (or how long it would find parking) once the Broadway apartments are complete, the Hyatt on Fleet is complete in addition to this eastward expansion of Harbor East.

I know we (granted, loathed suburbanites but who have the disposable income to drop 50-100 at a time 3x/4x a month on eating and drinking in the area) would probably just drive down to Bethesda or Frederick instead of Fells if things got anymore inconvenient...