Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
OK.. lets spark some interesting conversation in this thread again.. What are folks thoughts? I find it interesting when developer saviors swoop into town with grand plans on how to save the City with a Game Changer... Port Covington , Westside, Casino, Convention Center Hotel, Harbor East, etc etc.. Many of these developments aren't bad, but they still don't necessarily have impacts beyond their immediate area or at best solidify areas that are already redeveloping and would continue with our without the game changer. Many of these developers line their pockets in the process, which is ok if they don't do it at the expense of the average residents who is struggling to pay the city's punitive taxes only to see someone who can afford to pay ten times the average residents property tax rate get a break..Again, I don't want to fall in to the negative nelly crowd.. but I am curious to see what this guy has to say.. but call me skeptical....
OK.. lets spark some interesting conversation in this thread again.. What are folks thoughts? I find it interesting when developer saviors swoop into town with grand plans on how to save the City with a Game Changer... Port Covington , Westside, Casino, Convention Center Hotel, Harbor East, etc etc.. Many of these developments aren't bad, but they still don't necessarily have impacts beyond their immediate area or at best solidify areas that are already redeveloping and would continue with our without the game changer. Many of these developers line their pockets in the process, which is ok if they don't do it at the expense of the average residents who is struggling to pay the city's punitive taxes only to see someone who can afford to pay ten times the average residents property tax rate get a break..Again, I don't want to fall in to the negative nelly crowd.. but I am curious to see what this guy has to say.. but call me skeptical....
How are we to discuss this when the mystery man has not revealed any plans about what he wants to do?
Yes, developers line their pockets at the expense of city residents. If developers didn't get money from the taxpayers, where would they get it from?
You posted this at the right time because the link below is a good example of how developers and the mayor and city council swindle money from the taxpayers.
How are we to discuss this when the mystery man has not revealed any plans about what he wants to do?
Yes, developers line their pockets at the expense of city residents. If developers didn't get money from the taxpayers, where would they get it from?
You posted this at the right time because the link below is a good example of how developers and the mayor and city council swindle money from the taxpayers.
Yeah the Hilton seems to be oversized and ironically it was developed by the city rather than encouraging the private sector to build new hotels downtown. I would have much rather the city offered a tax break for developers wanting to build hotels downtown and then build a smaller city sponsored hotel if not building one at all. Again we need to look to see who benefited from the Hiltons construction because thus far it's not the city as a whole pre se. I have friends that subscribe to the belief that the government isn't in the business to make a profit. Though that may be true in theory that notion it exploited by some. Certainly it should not want to operate at a loss unless there is some tangible benefit elsewhere for city residents NOT just the developer.... If there is such a benefit from the Hilton please share maybe it's jobs or more conferences but I'm not sure the later is true.
If the government does make a profit it should be either pass through to the taxpayer as a tax reduction, placed in a rainy day fund or used to fund some other community priority. Often times it is simply used on pet projects that benefit only a few or squandered on 'game changer' or related stunts.
OK.. lets spark some interesting conversation in this thread again.. What are folks thoughts? I find it interesting when developer saviors swoop into town with grand plans on how to save the City with a Game Changer... Port Covington , Westside, Casino, Convention Center Hotel, Harbor East, etc etc.. Many of these developments aren't bad, but they still don't necessarily have impacts beyond their immediate area or at best solidify areas that are already redeveloping and would continue with our without the game changer. Many of these developers line their pockets in the process, which is ok if they don't do it at the expense of the average residents who is struggling to pay the city's punitive taxes only to see someone who can afford to pay ten times the average residents property tax rate get a break..Again, I don't want to fall in to the negative nelly crowd.. but I am curious to see what this guy has to say.. but call me skeptical....
So the Billion Dollar question is.. Whats in it for the developer? It would be one thing if the company was a Baltimore version of Google or Apple and the owners/founders were from here and wanted to find a way to give back. This developer is from NOVA and seems really bullish on Baltimore.. So, to invest 10billion what would be the expected return on investment? And if any sort of "tax incentive" is required.. the City has already blown its wad on Port Covington, Westside(area), and Harbor East. If there is any money to be made you would think that some local developer would have sniffed it out by now so I guess we have to wait and see....if this is real, will be real expensive(tax break), an attempt to get a bunch of undeveloped or city property on the cheap and then hold it based on future promises that never materialize..but said property is conveyed because money is given to politicos for campaigns, or just a publicity stunt to get some fame for an up and coming company by attaching its name to what some would call a "challenged city"
Wow thanks for sharing this.. it basically outlined what I was fearing.. but in a more succinct manner. The notion to give this firm all of the City's owned land for redevelopment for a fee is something that I had heard of in other communities.. but now it looks like it is Baltimores to get on (or stay off) the bandwagon
I have the perspective that their is no black or white solution. The biggest problem in our society is when people attempt to discuss and solve any issue, very few are interested in listening and adapting to other perspectives. When we discuss Baltimore's socio-economic and crime issues, we end up with a tug of war between the liberal and conservative school of thought. The truth is always a mixture of both but we tend to completely forsake the 'others' perspective. Their is a Chinese proverb that is relevant, " To admit you don't know everything is the first step on the road to wisdom."
Politics, whether Democratic or Republican, will not solve the issues of Baltimore. Their are so many factors that a few human beings under one ideology cannot solve everything. Regarding developers, the city is desperate for positive change. Regardless of the motivations or self interests of developers, something has to happen in the city. We are averaging multiple homicides a day and even more shootings. Port Covington needs to happen and I do not care if its only going to be for the professional class. Baltimore is a bedroom city at most for professionals and that needs to change.
The only way that our impoverished communities could flourish is A) Removing all Drug pins B) Teaching and equipping an entire young generation to the point where you are basically giving them a good job for free plus training. If not, they are screwed and our newly founded Youth Commission will not solve nor prevent disparities in our city.
Basically in a nut shell, we unfortunately need wealthy developers if we want to move forward in our city. If not, the status quo will remain besides the crime, that will continue to go up.
I have the perspective that their is no black or white solution. The biggest problem in our society is when people attempt to discuss and solve any issue, very few are interested in listening and adapting to other perspectives. When we discuss Baltimore's socio-economic and crime issues, we end up with a tug of war between the liberal and conservative school of thought. The truth is always a mixture of both but we tend to completely forsake the 'others' perspective. Their is a Chinese proverb that is relevant, " To admit you don't know everything is the first step on the road to wisdom."
Politics, whether Democratic or Republican, will not solve the issues of Baltimore. Their are so many factors that a few human beings under one ideology cannot solve everything. Regarding developers, the city is desperate for positive change. Regardless of the motivations or self interests of developers, something has to happen in the city. We are averaging multiple homicides a day and even more shootings. Port Covington needs to happen and I do not care if its only going to be for the professional class. Baltimore is a bedroom city at most for professionals and that needs to change.
The only way that our impoverished communities could flourish is A) Removing all Drug pins B) Teaching and equipping an entire young generation to the point where you are basically giving them a good job for free plus training. If not, they are screwed and our newly founded Youth Commission will not solve nor prevent disparities in our city.
Basically in a nut shell, we unfortunately need wealthy developers if we want to move forward in our city. If not, the status quo will remain besides the crime, that will continue to go up.
Thanks for your thoughts and insight.. I think you are spot on with these observation. My only concerns is that it appears that the socio economic conditions that you listed are often used by others for their own personal or political gain( yeah I know it happens in many places including our national politicos) but you can see the affects of that unveiling in real time when it happens on the local level.. which is usually the place where REAL change has to happen.. I think both political parties use this to their advantage where they are saying "they" are taking your tax dollars and we are trying to stop it or "we" are trying to help you and need more tax money but "they" are insensitive.. don't care.. etc are stopping us.. "vote for me so I can fight for you" can be applied under either circumstance. In come developers who use the fact that they will create jobs, affordable housing, etc.. which I support 100% if it is truly what happens. It does happen to varying degrees of success some time.. but many times it doesn't which only leads to more divisiveness and the proverbial "I told you so" from supports or their detractors. Tax breaks coupled with political favors only drive out those who can leave many of whom may a concerted choice to move and live in the City. That leaves behind the tourist and a minority of part time residents and pockets of wealthy whom further insulate themselves in their enclaves while leaving swaths of the city dominated by the poor to fend itself.. which so far is a losing proposition...
For Baltimore's sake.. I hope that this is the case with this new Game Changer.. Stay tuned...
Thanks for your thoughts and insight.. I think you are spot on with these observation. My only concerns is that it appears that the socio economic conditions that you listed are often used by others for their own personal or political gain( yeah I know it happens in many places including our national politicos) but you can see the affects of that unveiling in real time when it happens on the local level.. which is usually the place where REAL change has to happen.. I think both political parties use this to their advantage where they are saying "they" are taking your tax dollars and we are trying to stop it or "we" are trying to help you and need more tax money but "they" are insensitive.. don't care.. etc are stopping us.. "vote for me so I can fight for you" can be applied under either circumstance. In come developers who use the fact that they will create jobs, affordable housing, etc.. which I support 100% if it is truly what happens. It does happen to varying degrees of success some time.. but many times it doesn't which only leads to more divisiveness and the proverbial "I told you so" from supports or their detractors. Tax breaks coupled with political favors only drive out those who can leave many of whom may a concerted choice to move and live in the City. That leaves behind the tourist and a minority of part time residents and pockets of wealthy whom further insulate themselves in their enclaves while leaving swaths of the city dominated by the poor to fend itself.. which so far is a losing proposition...
For Baltimore's sake.. I hope that this is the case with this new Game Changer.. Stay tuned...
I read this article this morning and I thought about your post. There are signs all over my neighborhood to stop "Belvedere 2".
Quick synopsis: A private developer has purchased 30 acres that includes the new "The Falls" at Roland Park on the intersection of Falls and Northern Parkway. The developer wants to build a 292 room complex behind ' The Falls'. The City Council approved the development recently as well. The residents in Poplar Hill and Roland Park are protesting this new development because
A) The traffic at the Falls-NPW intersection will increase drastically.
B) The development would clear allot of woods in Poplar Hill, in which would ruin the country environment it saviors.
C) Schools and such are already at high capacity.
The Developers on the other hand say:
A) A traffic study was conducted and the findings conclude that traffic will not increase.
B) Bringing more professionals to the area close to the Mount Washington light rail
In this scenario, I do question some of the strategies that developers have. But this is a classic case of this warfare between Developers and residents. And this is a classic example where local politicians become desperate for change without thinking( or not caring) of the long term repercussions.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
