BWI foreign flights (Baltimore: live, low cost, airport)

[PacoMartin]

Ratio of Domestic passengers to international passengers

• 0.8 JFK
• 1.0 MIA
• 1.9 IAD
• 2.4 LAX
• 2.4 EWR
• 2.9 IAH
• 3.2 SFO
• 3.2 HNL
• 3.5 FLL
• 4.5 BOS
• 5.0 ORD
• 6.6 MCO
• 6.8 DFW
• 7.1 PHL
• 8.1 SEA
• 8.2 ATL
• 12.1 LAS
• 12.6 LGA
• 13.6 CLT
• 23.5 BWI
• 24.1 SAN
• 26.0 MDW
• 60.9 DCA

Although it makes perfect sense that Dulles has most of the international flights in the Washington/Philadelphia area, it still seems BWI has way too few for an airport of it's size.

I think BWI is prime airport for Norwegian, or another European low cost transAtlantic carrier equipped with a fleet of Airbus A321LRs to make as their USA destination.

[bus man]

BWI has long been overshadowed by Dulles. For years, we've managed to cling to our one mainstay international flight, the British Airways nonstop to London Heathrow. I recall reading that the State of Maryland provides a subsidy to BA to operate that flight, but I don't know for sure. But anyway, aside from that, our international service keeps on bouncing around from one short-staying carrier to another. Seems like none of them ever manage to make it work for more than a year or two.

Did you know that at one time, BWI actually had a nonstop to Accra, Ghana? That routing never would have occurred to me, but Ghana Airways made a go of it for awhile. I recall reading that the flights were actually pretty popular. What apparently did them in was not lack of demand, but the faltering state of the airline itself.

I understand not having a huge pile of international service, but I do think we should have more than we do. After all, BWI serves a region of several million, including Montgomery and Prince George's Counties (both of which are closer to BWI than they are to Dulles) as well as the Baltimore metropolitan area. You'd think that would be enough to bring in some business.

With the region's burgeoning Korean population, it seems like a flight to Seoul-Incheon would be a no-brainer. I was told that the runway was too short to handle a plane fueled to travel that distance. This seems odd, though, because BWI can and does host 747s and other large planes. Even if a fully-fueled 777 couldn't make it, one would think that a 787 could. But I'm not an expert in that area.

[LesLucid]

It could also be that BWI gets more local traffic percentage wise because people who live here choose it over the other two diluting out some of the foreign travel numbers. I doubt that’s the full extent of it though. All of my friends, and family members always fly out of BWI because we like it better than the other two. One of my coworkers used to drive down from near Philly to travel out of BWI. It’s a much nicer airport than the other two, in my opinion.

[Woodlands]

Originally Posted by bus man

BWI has long been overshadowed by Dulles. For years, we've managed to cling to our one mainstay international flight, the British Airways nonstop to London Heathrow. I recall reading that the State of Maryland provides a subsidy to BA to operate that flight, but I don't know for sure. But anyway, aside from that, our international service keeps on bouncing around from one short-staying carrier to another. Seems like none of them ever manage to make it work for more than a year or two.

Did you know that at one time, BWI actually had a nonstop to Accra, Ghana? That routing never would have occurred to me, but Ghana Airways made a go of it for awhile. I recall reading that the flights were actually pretty popular. What apparently did them in was not lack of demand, but the faltering state of the airline itself.

I understand not having a huge pile of international service, but I do think we should have more than we do. After all, BWI serves a region of several million, including Montgomery and Prince George's Counties (both of which are closer to BWI than they are to Dulles) as well as the Baltimore metropolitan area. You'd think that would be enough to bring in some business.

With the region's burgeoning Korean population, it seems like a flight to Seoul-Incheon would be a no-brainer. I was told that the runway was too short to handle a plane fueled to travel that distance. This seems odd, though, because BWI can and does host 747s and other large planes. Even if a fully-fueled 777 couldn't make it, one would think that a 787 could. But I'm not an expert in that area.

A light from BWI to West Africa would seem to me to be a money maker given the large West African population in the DC-Baltimore Metros...Right now you only have JFK and ATL on the east coast that fly direct.


I agree that problem seems to be the reliability of Africa based Airlines and their scheduling. Arik used to fly from JFK to Lagos was notorious for cancellation and delays. A flight from BWI to Lagos seems like it would be profitable as the largest city in West Africa if not the entire continent. Surprised the Delta hasn't jump into that from BWI or even Dulles

[PacoMartin]

Lets compare one route to Keflavik/Reykjavik, Iceland where there is competition for April 2018

BWI Wow Air 2762 miles 6600 total seats with 6146 passenger
30 flights with 220 seats apiece on an A321: All economy

IAD Icelandair 2799 miles 6106 total seats with 4900 passengers
18 flights with 183 seats apiece on a B752 : 161 Economy 22 Saga class
9 flights with 225 seats apiece on a B753 ??
3 flights with 262 seats apiece on a B767 (twin aisle): 237 Economy 25 Saga class

The two airports can easily sustain competition to the same destinations, largely because the distance is short enough that a single aisle jet is used for 57 out of 60 flights for the month. Wow Air has an all economy class configuration, while IcelandAir sells some business class seats.

Wow Air is introducing flights from Iceland to Delhi India next week. So Air India which has nonstops from Delhi to Dulles will now have some presumably lower cost competition for flyers who make the stop in Iceland and are bound for BWI.

With a new generation of A321 with a range of 4600 miles, more European Low Cost Airlines should target BWI in similar competition.

Last year
IAD-Dublin had 176,502 passengers on Aer Lingus and United Airlines
IAD-Reykjavík had 167,687 passengers on Icelandair


Since BWI-DUB great circle range is only 3362 miles it should be well within the range of the A321 new engine options.

The four most popular international destinations from IAD last year were
1 London–Heathrow (from BWI 3634 miles)
2 Frankfurt (from BWI 4038 miles)
3 Paris–Charles de Gaulle (from BWI 3818 miles)
4 Amsterdam (from BWI 3825 miles)

Single aisle jet flights from BWI are more likely to fly to alternative airports (like Stansted London instead of Heathrow)

[PacoMartin]

Continuing our comparison on competing flights from BWI and IAD in April 2018

BWI, 3634 miles to London Heathrow
28 flights with 214 seats B787-800 Dreamliner on British Airways Plc

IAD, 3677 miles to London Heathrow
60 flights with 300 seats Boeing 747-400 on British Airways Plc
30 flights with 264 seats Airbus Industrie A330-300 on Virgin Atlantic Airways
30 flights with 269 seats Boeing 777-200ER on United Air Lines Inc.
30 flights with 219 seats B787-800 Dreamliner on United Air Lines Inc.
30 flights with 169 seats Boeing 757-200 on United Air Lines Inc.
180 flights with 45,618 seats with 33,605 passengers on all airlines

===================================

A more competitive offering next year from BWI would be a Norwegian Air Shuttle flight to London Gatwick with 220 seats apiece on an A321 in an all economy configuration

I suspect that Norwegian could profitably fly more than 50 flights per month from BWI to London Gatwick, and possibly include some flights to Dublin, Edinburgh, possibly even Belfast and Glasgow

[bus man]

Originally Posted by PacoMartin

Continuing our comparison on competing flights from BWI and IAD in April 2018

BWI, 3634 miles to London Heathrow
28 flights with 214 seats B787-800 Dreamliner on British Airways Plc

IAD, 3677 miles to London Heathrow
60 flights with 300 seats Boeing 747-400 on British Airways Plc
30 flights with 264 seats Airbus Industrie A330-300 on Virgin Atlantic Airways
30 flights with 269 seats Boeing 777-200ER on United Air Lines Inc.
30 flights with 219 seats B787-800 Dreamliner on United Air Lines Inc.
30 flights with 169 seats Boeing 757-200 on United Air Lines Inc.
180 flights with 45,618 seats with 33,605 passengers on all airlines

===================================

A more competitive offering next year from BWI would be a Norwegian Air Shuttle flight to London Gatwick with 220 seats apiece on an A321 in an all economy configuration

I suspect that Norwegian could profitably fly more than 50 flights per month from BWI to London Gatwick, and possibly include some flights to Dublin, Edinburgh, possibly even Belfast and Glasgow

Wow! So on the London route, Dulles has about 6 daily flights with over 1,500 seats in total, whereas BWI has but 1 daily flight with just over 200 seats. This just seems so out-of-balance. Why does IAD have over 7 times the number of seats on the LHR route as does BWI? The DC area certainly has nowhere near as much as 7 times the population as the Baltimore area, especially considering that a pretty decent portion of the DC area's population is actually closer to BWI than it is to IAD. Even given Washington's status as the nation's capital and a major tourist draw, this still seems out-of-whack.

I guess it could be worse. At least British Airways gives us a twin-aisle plane on our one daily nonstop. I'd welcome any additional international service that Norwegian might provide, but having to endure a single aisle on a flight across the Atlantic would be a big disincentive for me.

(Speaking of Norwegian, didn't they serve BWI recently? Are they going to return?)

[PacoMartin]

Originally Posted by bus man

(Speaking of Norwegian, didn't they serve BWI recently? Are they going to return?)

Norwegian Air Shuttle had service between BWI Marshall and Two Caribbean Destinations—Martinique and Guadeloupe in December.

Norwegian changes service very rapidly. They try something for a few months and then frequently change very quickly.

Originally Posted by bus man

Wow! So on the London route, Dulles has about 6 daily flights with over 1,500 seats in total, whereas BWI has but 1 daily flight with just over 200 seats. This just seems so out-of-balance.)

Very out of balance. Given the millions of people live closer to BWI than IAD you would think that an airline would find a competitive advantage. It's difficult to understand why 6 to 1 makes more sense than 5 to 2 daily flights.

But it is precisely this imbalance that makes me think that BWI is a natural destination for these new single aisle TransAtlantic flights.

Originally Posted by bus man

I guess it could be worse. At least British Airways gives us a twin-aisle plane on our one daily nonstop. I'd welcome any additional international service that Norwegian might provide, but having to endure a single aisle on a flight across the Atlantic would be a big disincentive for me.

There were 30 flights in April from IAD with 169 seats Boeing 757-200 on United Air Lines Inc. on a single aisle jet. The A321neo can achieve many of the characteristics of the B757 including the 4000 nm range and has similar seating capacity (albeit with smaller engines).

You may get your wish when the B797 is delivered in about 8 years, but in the interim I don't see any new dual aisle TransAtlantic service coming to BWI. The B797 will have a configuration like the B767 with a comfortable 2-3-2 seating. I am not saying the BA flight that currently exists will be cancelled, but I don't see anything new.

The A321neo will probably fly to Stansted which has a train that serves London, but in the City (not on the West End like Heathrow and Gatwick). Also the smaller airports like Gatwick, Edinboro, Belfast, Shannon and Cork may end up with single aisle service. Dublin is easy because they have remote customs office so the plane can land in USA as a domestic flight.

Baltimore Washington Intl Arpt, Baltimore, MD (BWI) to Oslo Airport, Oslo, NO (OSL) is 3840 miles .
Baltimore Washington Intl Arpt, Baltimore, MD (BWI) toFlesland Airport, Bergen, NO (BGO) is 3650 miles