Segregated. (Baltimore, Parkville, Mount Vernon: middle-class, buying a house, neighborhoods)

[psu1983]

I just moved to Baltimore (actually Parkville, but work in the city) this past January, and let me start by saying I'm not racist in the least bit. Does anyone else notice the city seems segregated, even in this day and age? I find this kind of unsettling.

White Areas: Hampden, Roland Park (area north of JHU), York Road, Fells Point, Canton, Federal Hill, Mount Vernon, Inner Harbor, Mount Washington

African-American areas: Waverly, Coldstream, most of West Baltimore, Mondawmin Mall, most of East Baltimore, Brooklyn, Cherry Hill, Sandtown, Greenmount area, Pimlico

It's a touchy subject, but again, it's just my observation. Maybe I'm wrong. Why is it like this? I personally feel a lot better about things when people of different races are mixed in the same neighborhood. Since I'm trying to decide where I'll be settling down and buying a house (if I stay in Baltimore), I want to make sure I'm getting a better feel for the city.

Anyone agree?

[jonjj]

Baltimore is less segregated than many cities. Can you tell me a city that does not have "white" areas and "black" areas? Baltimore has neighborhoods that are predominately white and it also has neighborhoods that are mostly black. The suburbs of Baltimore seem to be very integrated from what I have seen.

[DenverLawGal]

Originally Posted by jonjj

Can you tell me a city that does not have "white" areas and "black" areas?

Denver, Colorado

[jonjj]

Denver does not have predominately white areas???? Plus, isn't Denver's African-American population something like 10%? Having been to Denver numerous times, the burbs seemed lily white to me. I could be wrong though.

[DenverLawGal]

I was responding to the area I had in quotes. You said, I'll quote again, "Can you tell me a city that does not have "white" areas and "black" areas?"

If you don't live here and just visit, well then, I don't believe you can honestly say you know about these areas fully. We don't really have designated areas like that, and while you point out that Denver has 10% blacks (woo hoo), that's not really a large amount. In addition, the blacks that are here are scattered all over the place. Using the term burb is not really identifying an area. We have tons of burbs as we are really sprawly. Then there are the hispanics, east indians, chinese, japanese and all the million other ethnic groups here. I've argued that Denver isn't a real city and lacking in diversity, but I do not think that Denver is segregated.

Meaning, there isn't an area that is the "black" part of town, vs. the "white" part of town. I used to think my burb was lilly white, but have since seen tons of blacks among other ethnic groups in my area.

[kinkytoes]

Yes, it is. I notice less because I have been here so long. Originally from NY. There is much more segregation here as well as more racism and less education among the public at large. I don't know if you noticed yet, but the blacks and whites even listen to different radio stations! Now I'm an adult, I mostly listen to 88.5 since I can't stand WYPR any more, but the radio stations are super strange. There are also "black" nights and "white" nights at most nightclubs. Of course there is a contingent of people who are not this way, but that's what I have noticed in the city for the most part. So strange.

If you're curious, Canton and Federal Hill used to be the poor white areas. That whole conversion to white ex-frat yuppiedom was strange to me. MV is becoming much whiter, but pls don't rank it with Canton. Eww There is a lot of diversity of all kinds in MV. But pay attention and you'll notice the gross economic segregation. A lot of it is along race lines, since most affluent and middle-class blacks flee from the city and the city jail is just over the bridge.

I'm meeting more and more people from other places who move to Baltimore, including some other ex-New Yorkers. Yay. Baltimore used to be populated by the dregs of poor and uneducated blacks and whites fighting for scraps and completely LOATHING one another. Unless you grew up here, it might be pretty disturbing. I have heard that some of the older industrial cities in Philadelphia are similar. As more educated and affluent people of all colors and backgrounds continue to move into the city and move those guys out, things will change for the better.

Just my 2 cents.

[jonjj]

Originally Posted by wanttomoveeast

I was responding to the area I had in quotes. You said, I'll quote again, "Can you tell me a city that does not have "white" areas and "black" areas?"

If you don't live here and just visit, well then, I don't believe you can honestly say you know about these areas fully. We don't really have designated areas like that, and while you point out that Denver has 10% blacks (woo hoo), that's not really a large amount. In addition, the blacks that are here are scattered all over the place. Using the term burb is not really identifying an area. We have tons of burbs as we are really sprawly. Then there are the hispanics, east indians, chinese, japanese and all the million other ethnic groups here. I've argued that Denver isn't a real city and lacking in diversity, but I do not think that Denver is segregated.

Meaning, there isn't an area that is the "black" part of town, vs. the "white" part of town. I used to think my burb was lilly white, but have since seen tons of blacks among other ethnic groups in my area.

Whatever. If you compare Baltimore to other cities that have similar demographics, you will find Baltimore to be no different. Philly, Boston, DC, NYC all have areas that are predominately white or predominately black. I don't think Baltimore is any different. In terms of Denver, the reason why I mentioned the 10% figure is because that is a relatively low percentage of African-Americans. Therefore, I would imagine Denver would naturally not have that many predominately black neighborhoods. My neighborhood in Baltimore is very diverse like most in the city. There are exceptions in that there are areas of the city that are mostly if not all black. And yes, I have been to Denver numerous times and can tell you that the burbs there are much different than here. They were lily white. Baltimore's suburban areas are much more diverse.

[DenverLawGal]

As I said, you don't live here. And I don't live in Baltimore, so I won't try to make comparisons. Just from reading the post by kinkytoes, I can tell you that Denver is nothing like that (and I'm a Denver native) I understand your thinking re: the 10% blacks, I'm just saying that your final assessment is off kilter. Surely you can agree that if I visited Baltimore and made all of these assessments, they probably wouldn't be dead on, mainly because I don't live there, just have visited.

I'm not trying to make comparisons or argue that Baltimore is no different than the cities you mentioned. Please go back to where I came in on this thread and you'll see we've gone quite off topic.

The statement you just made about Denver not having predominantly black neighborhoods actually supports my response to your question of show me a neighborhood that doesn't have white or black areas.

[psu1983]

Originally Posted by kinkytoes

If you're curious, Canton and Federal Hill used to be the poor white areas. That whole conversion to white ex-frat yuppiedom was strange to me.

Thanks for your post, so far I've noticed some of the things you talked about, and my co-workers who grew up here agree with me.

Federal Hill and that whole "hip area" doesn't make sense to me. I met a girl here who bought a 110 year-old 2 story rowhome in FH for $325,000 and got a "great deal."

[carolott]

One of the reasons why I am not in favor of "gentrification" is the loss of diversity. Revitalization is fine -- but one of the reasons why I live in Pigtown is its diverse population -- not just racial, but across just about every "line" you can think of.