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Old 02-17-2011, 01:07 PM
 
78,418 posts, read 60,593,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
Not much chance that $30 million a year is going to bankrupt any team.
Oh really?

A-Rod joins Rangers creditors group | Reuters
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
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filihok...

Maybe if you could come up with a graph which relates WAR produced to team revenue, then we would have a proper business model. Currently you are relating WAR produced to dollars paid, not dollars received.

MLB remains a business, it is a sport being played for profit. Nothing in your analysis addresses the business aspects, just the winning aspects.
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Old 02-17-2011, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
Reputation: 6658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
filihok...

Maybe if you could come up with a graph which relates WAR produced to team revenue, then we would have a proper business model. Currently you are relating WAR produced to dollars paid, not dollars received.

MLB remains a business, it is a sport being played for profit. Nothing in your analysis addresses the business aspects, just the winning aspects.
You are correct, the MLB is a business.

I did post this earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
I think winning is the more important factor.

Take the Seattle Mariners

Year Attend Win%
1993 86.2 .506
1994 63.9 .438
1995 90.7 .545
1996 128.3 .528
1997 142.9 .556
1998 115.4 .472
Randy Johnson traded to the Astros during 1998 season
1999 127.5 .488
Ken Griffey Jr traded to the Reds
SAFECO field opens
2000 139.2 .562
2001 149.7 .716
2002 160.4 .574
2003 149.2 .574
*Attend = Home attendance / AL average attendance
**Attendance data from: Seattle Mariners Attendance Records by Baseball Almanac

I chose to look at the Mariners because they lost two of their iconic players in consecutive seasons. Losing their two most famous players didn't appear to negatively impact their attendance. Attendance continued to increase after trading those players. Some things to consider though, they moved into a new stadium in 1999/2000. New stadiums increase attendance. They began winning a lot more games after trading Griffey and Johnson. Winning increases attendance.

Also, this article.
The Baseball Analysts: What Puts Fans In the Seats?

Unsupported by data, I have to believe that fans care more about winning than individual players on the team.
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,122,692 times
Reputation: 21239
I saw that when you first posted it. It is a start, but what would be needed does not exist yet. It would be some means for a precise relation between revenue dollars and units of team WAR. Then after dividing the team WAR shares by individual contribution, we will know how much an individual's WAR is worth in dollars coming in. (WAR DCI)

Then we could retro apply it to the last ten years and determine just how much of the St. Louis attendance may be assigned to Pujols, and multiply that by our WAR DCI metric and we will have a revenue figure for Albert. That may be compared to what it cost the Cardinals to employ him.

You'd probably point out that we would have a bottom line, ordinary business metric, the basic cost/profit chart, and that MLB, while a business, is not an ordinary business at all. You'd probably cite the Pirates as an example of how a team may be operated for a profit, while not really acting in the spirit of the game. Thus, you'd probably conclude, it isn't appropriate to address the Pujols situation on ordinary business terms.

And then I would have had to reply saying, yeah, you're right, I understand that.

So to avoid all that effort, I'm writing it all in this post.
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Old 02-18-2011, 08:54 AM
 
78,418 posts, read 60,593,823 times
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Oh well, it's news like this that means I will continue my personal lockout of baseball for another year.

We have an economic crisis, record foreclosures, bankruptcies....and there are something like 50-60 guys in MLB making enough money to land in the top 5 or 10 of the Forbes highest paid CEO's list and that doesn't include endorsement income.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
Reputation: 6658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Oh well, it's news like this that means I will continue my personal lockout of baseball for another year.

We have an economic crisis, record foreclosures, bankruptcies....and there are something like 50-60 guys in MLB making enough money to land in the top 5 or 10 of the Forbes highest paid CEO's list and that doesn't include endorsement income.
A-Rod is the highest paid player in baseball. He makes $31 million a year (not including indorsement income).

CEO Compensation - Forbes.com

Looks like your math is off since that'd rank him (conveniently) 11th amongst highest paid CEOs.

I guess you won't be going to see any movies either.
Hollywood's Best-Paid Actors - Forbes.com

Do you watch TV?
Highest Paid TV Stars - Zach Braff, Charlie Sheen, James Gandolfini, Kiefer Sutherland, David Letterman, Simon Cowell, Dr. Phil, the cast of 'Desperate Housewives,' Katie Couric and Oprah Winfrey - AOL Television

Do you watch NFL?
The 15 HighestPaid NFL Players in 2010 Will Probably Surprise You - SportsUntapped.com

How about NBA?
The NBA's Highest-Paid Players - Forbes.com

Maybe golf is your game?
The world's top-earning golfers - Golf - Yahoo! Sports

Probably you like chess...those guys only pull in $1,000,000
Anand wins world chess crown of 2010-2011
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Old 02-19-2011, 06:18 PM
 
78,418 posts, read 60,593,823 times
Reputation: 49704
Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
A-Rod is the highest paid player in baseball. He makes $31 million a year (not including indorsement income).

CEO Compensation - Forbes.com

Looks like your math is off since that'd rank him (conveniently) 11th amongst highest paid CEOs.

I guess you won't be going to see any movies either.
Hollywood's Best-Paid Actors - Forbes.com

Do you watch TV?
Highest Paid TV Stars - Zach Braff, Charlie Sheen, James Gandolfini, Kiefer Sutherland, David Letterman, Simon Cowell, Dr. Phil, the cast of 'Desperate Housewives,' Katie Couric and Oprah Winfrey - AOL Television

Do you watch NFL?
The 15 HighestPaid NFL Players in 2010 Will Probably Surprise You - SportsUntapped.com

How about NBA?
The NBA's Highest-Paid Players - Forbes.com

Maybe golf is your game?
The world's top-earning golfers - Golf - Yahoo! Sports

Probably you like chess...those guys only pull in $1,000,000
Anand wins world chess crown of 2010-2011
This from the guy that doesn't think baseball teams can go bankrupt....or read the study methodology and footnotes.....

P.S. Your references include endorsements, frankly your points are so fail......oh why bother I could make additional points but you will just slink away from the thread again. Later.
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,304,138 times
Reputation: 6658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
This from the guy that doesn't think baseball teams can go bankrupt....
Quote:
Originally Posted by your link
The inclusion of Rodriguez appears "somewhat odd in that even though he is largest unsecured creditor, there is no issue about his being paid," said a Major League Baseball official who requested anonymity, citing the Rangers' pending sale.
Quote:
Greenberg and company turned down Lee’s seven-year proposal and their final offer was $138 million over six years with a seventh-year vesting option worth $23 million.
Owner says Rangers turned down Cliff Lee’s offer to re-sign for seven guaranteed years | HardballTalk

Let me know when the Rangers start missing payroll

Quote:
or read the study methodology and footnotes.....

P.S. Your references include endorsements, frankly your points are so fail......oh why bother I could make additional points but you will just slink away from the thread again. Later.
Go ahead and back up your claim that the 50th highest paid MLB player earns more per season than the 10th highest paid CEO

The 25th highest paid baseball player in 2010 made $15.4 million
MLB Salaries - CBSSports.com

The highest paid NFL player (Peyton Manning) makes $15.8 million. Which is more than the 25th highest paid MLB player, which is more than the 50th highest paid MLB player, which, you claim, is higher than the 10th highest paid CEO.

So, do you also boycott the NFL?

The highest paid NBA player (Kobe Bryans) makes $24.8 million. Which is more than the 25th highest paid MLB player, which is more than the 50th highest paid MLB player, which, you claim, is higher than the 10th highest paid CEO.

So, do you also boycott the NBA?

If you don't want to support the MLB monetarily, that's totally your right.

But, an honest question. What would bring you back?

Would you support player salaries being capped? So instead of 50 MLB players making more than the top 10 CEO's zero MLB players made the amount and that much more money found it's way into the owners' pockets?

Would you support a cap on the owners' profits?

What is the goal of your little boycott?

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