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Old 07-09-2011, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,238,196 times
Reputation: 21241

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The title shifts from team to team, Colorado rose to the top of the heap in 2001 with their grand scale disaster signings of Mike Hampton and Denny Neagle, more recently the Giants took over the lead with the money that they threw at Barry Zito and Aaron Rowand. Seattle fought back and won the 2010 crown with their Figgins/Bradley combo. Every club has had their lemons, but 2011 seems to be a new Golden Age for bangless bucks.

We might begin with Mr. Figgins. You might have thought that things couldn't get worse after last season's .646 OPS flameout, but that was the productive part of Chone's Mariner career. In 279 plate appearances, he has terrorized AL pitching to the tune of .183 .231 .244 .475 . For his 9.5 million dollars, he now sits on the bench and watches rookie Kyle Seager play thrirdbase.

And released in May, Milton is still collecting 13 million dollars for his 2011 play, which was .218 .313 .356 .669

Then we have Adam Dunn. White Sox. 12 million dollars a year. For their money they are getting .162 .292 .308 .601 9 homeruns. Well, at least there is that defensive value....oh wait..

The Washington Nationals let Adam Dunn walk because they knew that their money would be better invested in a player with more rounded skills. So they opened the vaults and signed Jason Werth to a long term Fortune 500 contract ..and they are getting .219 .323 .369 .691. They were smart, that is 90 OPS points higher than Dunn.

The Atlanta Braves seemed to have scored a coup by grabbing Dan Uggla from the Marlins....but it now seems like the real coup was the Marlins unloading him at the right time. For his 9.2 million bucks, Danny is contributing at a .185 .257 .363 .620 clip.

Though the Mariners have three mega salary bombs on their roster, The Twins are probably the reigning champs because of their longer term commitments and fatter dollars. Their M & M boys are either not playing, or playing poorly. Justin Morneau is hurt again and will be out until sometime in August, which may be a mercy for Minnesota because when he was in there it was at a .225 .281 .338 .619 production level. For this he is being paid 15 million this year. Joe Mauer, 23 million dollars this season, is finally back in the lineup and playing, but he has a lot of work to do to redeem his performance in the 30 games he has played...243 .299 .290 .589.

Others...

Alex Rios..Dunn's teammate...12.5 million for .211 .260 .309 .569

Aubrey Huff..a bargain for SF last season, so they raised him to ten million a year and are getting...238 .290 .364 .655

And we cannot overlook Ichiro! whose career has started to trail blue smoke at age 37. For the 18 million he is being paid to perform for the Mariners, he has provided .271 .319 .326 .645

The list would be incomplete without mentioning that Aaron Rowand is still chugging away on his long term deal which this seasons pays him 13.5 million, and for which he is returning a .238 .292 .346 .638 line.

Because today is his special day of triumph, I'm cutting Derek Jeter a break and will not be mentioning that he may not be doing enough to justify his 14 million dollar salary.

I've tried to focus on the most expensive failures, if I've overlooked anyone, please feel free to add to the list.
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Old 07-14-2011, 01:33 PM
 
78,868 posts, read 61,063,313 times
Reputation: 50155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
The title shifts from team to team, Colorado rose to the top of the heap in 2001 with their grand scale disaster signings of Mike Hampton and Denny Neagle, more recently the Giants took over the lead with the money that they threw at Barry Zito and Aaron Rowand. Seattle fought back and won the 2010 crown with their Figgins/Bradley combo. Every club has had their lemons, but 2011 seems to be a new Golden Age for bangless bucks.

We might begin with Mr. Figgins. You might have thought that things couldn't get worse after last season's .646 OPS flameout, but that was the productive part of Chone's Mariner career. In 279 plate appearances, he has terrorized AL pitching to the tune of .183 .231 .244 .475 . For his 9.5 million dollars, he now sits on the bench and watches rookie Kyle Seager play thrirdbase.

And released in May, Milton is still collecting 13 million dollars for his 2011 play, which was .218 .313 .356 .669

Then we have Adam Dunn. White Sox. 12 million dollars a year. For their money they are getting .162 .292 .308 .601 9 homeruns. Well, at least there is that defensive value....oh wait..

The Washington Nationals let Adam Dunn walk because they knew that their money would be better invested in a player with more rounded skills. So they opened the vaults and signed Jason Werth to a long term Fortune 500 contract ..and they are getting .219 .323 .369 .691. They were smart, that is 90 OPS points higher than Dunn.

The Atlanta Braves seemed to have scored a coup by grabbing Dan Uggla from the Marlins....but it now seems like the real coup was the Marlins unloading him at the right time. For his 9.2 million bucks, Danny is contributing at a .185 .257 .363 .620 clip.

Though the Mariners have three mega salary bombs on their roster, The Twins are probably the reigning champs because of their longer term commitments and fatter dollars. Their M & M boys are either not playing, or playing poorly. Justin Morneau is hurt again and will be out until sometime in August, which may be a mercy for Minnesota because when he was in there it was at a .225 .281 .338 .619 production level. For this he is being paid 15 million this year. Joe Mauer, 23 million dollars this season, is finally back in the lineup and playing, but he has a lot of work to do to redeem his performance in the 30 games he has played...243 .299 .290 .589.

Others...

Alex Rios..Dunn's teammate...12.5 million for .211 .260 .309 .569

Aubrey Huff..a bargain for SF last season, so they raised him to ten million a year and are getting...238 .290 .364 .655

And we cannot overlook Ichiro! whose career has started to trail blue smoke at age 37. For the 18 million he is being paid to perform for the Mariners, he has provided .271 .319 .326 .645

The list would be incomplete without mentioning that Aaron Rowand is still chugging away on his long term deal which this seasons pays him 13.5 million, and for which he is returning a .238 .292 .346 .638 line.

Because today is his special day of triumph, I'm cutting Derek Jeter a break and will not be mentioning that he may not be doing enough to justify his 14 million dollar salary.

I've tried to focus on the most expensive failures, if I've overlooked anyone, please feel free to add to the list.
How can you not have Manny or A-rod's rangers contracts mentioned?

I mean when you are paying tens of millions to guys producing .000 .000 .000 .000 you probably aren't getting your moneys worth.
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,238,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
How can you not have Manny or A-rod's rangers contracts mentioned?

I mean when you are paying tens of millions to guys producing .000 .000 .000 .000 you probably aren't getting your moneys worth.
Manny retired, thus he forfeited whatever was still owed to him in his contract beyond any deferred payements from his active days.

Alex Rodriguez is the leading hitter at his position this season to date. His compensation is still based on what he did in the past rather than on the value of his current production, but he at least is still producing reasonably well.
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Old 07-14-2011, 02:33 PM
 
78,868 posts, read 61,063,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Manny retired, thus he forfeited whatever was still owed to him in his contract beyond any deferred payements from his active days.

Alex Rodriguez is the leading hitter at his position this season to date. His compensation is still based on what he did in the past rather than on the value of his current production, but he at least is still producing reasonably well.
Bottom line is that clubs signed them and still owed them 20-30million each and are getting ZERO production from them.

Somehow when they traded the guy to his new team they got left holding the bag for a lot of money.

Not surprisingly, both of these clubs are recent or current bankruptcies.

I really don't know how much bigger contract bomb you can have than having to pay players that much money for no production.
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Old 07-14-2011, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,238,196 times
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No, the bottom line is the actual version of reality which I outlined above. Your post is extremely confusing, I don't know who you are referencing with which statements.

Again...Ramirez isn't getting paid to do nothing. He retired. If he had been released, he would still be owed his money even though he wasn't playing, but he wasn't released, he quit.

Arod, although currently on the DL, has been playing this season and has been the leading offensive performer at his position. He isn't being paid for doing nothing, he is being paid to recuperate from injuries sustained while performing his duties.

Ramirez...no contract, no career, no salary.

Arod....was earning his money and had the misfortune of an injury.

Neither of the above cases qualifies at all under "Contract Bomb 2011."
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:07 PM
 
9,091 posts, read 19,274,641 times
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I think he's getting to the fairly common aspect of a team taking on a players salary - even though that player isn't on the team anymore .... I know the marlins paid mike hampton for a long time, even if he only skipped through the city

Here is a bit on the rangers from their bankruptcy last year

Quote:
New York Yankees third baseman Alex Rodriguez has $24.9 million in deferred pay at risk in the Texas Rangers’ bankruptcy case ................... Rodriguez tops the list of the Rangers’ unsecured creditors – a lineup that also includes Baltimore Orioles pitcher Kevin Millwood, a former Ranger owed $12.9 million, and current Texas third baseman Michael Young, owed $3.9 million.
Quote:
Other former Rangers owed back pay include current Los Angeles Dodgers pitcher Vicente Padilla, owed $1.7 million, retired catcher Mickey Tettleton, owed $1.4 million, and retired utility man Mark McLemore, owed $970,000.
Here is a bit from the Mike Hampton trade

Quote:
The Braves now are on the hook for $48.5 for six years of Hampton, with the Marlins paying $23.5 million of his 2003-05 salaries and the Rockies contributing $6.5 million over the same period. Colorado also paid $6 million to buy out Hampton's $20 million option for 2009. Thus the overall savings is $24.8 million for the Rockies and $23.7 million for the Marlins. However, when interest is figured, the amounts aren't much different from the calculations above, and Florida also has lost payroll flexibility over the next three seasons.
Baseball America Online - Trade Central

I know the diamondbacks are still paying for 2001
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:23 PM
 
78,868 posts, read 61,063,313 times
Reputation: 50155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
No, the bottom line is the actual version of reality which I outlined above. Your post is extremely confusing, I don't know who you are referencing with which statements.

Again...Ramirez isn't getting paid to do nothing. He retired. If he had been released, he would still be owed his money even though he wasn't playing, but he wasn't released, he quit.

Arod, although currently on the DL, has been playing this season and has been the leading offensive performer at his position. He isn't being paid for doing nothing, he is being paid to recuperate from injuries sustained while performing his duties.

Ramirez...no contract, no career, no salary.

Arod....was earning his money and had the misfortune of an injury.

Neither of the above cases qualifies at all under "Contract Bomb 2011."
Manny is collecting pay from the Red Sox until he is 50. And the news reports I've read are that the Dodgers still owe him $25million. If you have anything to dispute those points then I would appreciate learning more.

Arod injured or not isn't helping the rangers now is he?

Signing crazy deals for players sucking up 10s of millions of payroll for them to NOT play for you seems like a contract bomb to me.

No need to get defensive if we just have different definitions.

Personally, I think if you sign a 7 year contract for a player costing say....$70million but you get them for only 3 years...trade them and NOT THE MONEY REMAINING ON THE CONTRACT.....then that means you grossly overpaid unless you got upfront cash considerations to offset.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,238,196 times
Reputation: 21241
mathguy...

A) That is deferred money owed to Ramirez, that is to say money owed for services already performed. He isn't being paid that money for not performing now, he is being paid that money for his play in 2009 and 2010, which he was owed for those seasons, but agreed to accept at a later date. It is akin to Ramirez making a loan to the Dodgers. Ramirez had an entirely seperate 11 million dollar contract with the Rays, which he forfeited by retiring.

So, Ramirez is not being paid to not perform.

B) Okay, now I understand that you were referncing the Arod money still owed by the Rangers, you did not previously identify that. However, my thread is about how 2011 is a golden year for big contract failures, and a deal signed ten years ago didn't strike me as relevant to my subject.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:03 AM
 
78,868 posts, read 61,063,313 times
Reputation: 50155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
mathguy...

A) That is deferred money owed to Ramirez, that is to say money owed for services already performed. He isn't being paid that money for not performing now, he is being paid that money for his play in 2009 and 2010, which he was owed for those seasons, but agreed to accept at a later date. It is akin to Ramirez making a loan to the Dodgers. Ramirez had an entirely seperate 11 million dollar contract with the Rays, which he forfeited by retiring.

So, Ramirez is not being paid to not perform.

B) Okay, now I understand that you were referncing the Arod money still owed by the Rangers, you did not previously identify that. However, my thread is about how 2011 is a golden year for big contract failures, and a deal signed ten years ago didn't strike me as relevant to my subject.
Ok, I see your point A and it's even similar to point B.

Perhaps I just find it ironic that the 2 recent bankrupt teams both owe large amounts of money to past players. I also understand how deferring those amounts can help with taxation and so on and so forth.

Wow. Just crazy amounts of money flying around, especially in this economy. Hard to wrap your brain around making 50,000 or more per game like some guys do.
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Old 07-15-2011, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Lyon, France, Whidbey Island WA
20,846 posts, read 17,177,802 times
Reputation: 11535
Zito. 126M.
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