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What as a yankee fan makes you uniquely qualified to answer this question? I've watched every game in September and francona had PLENTY to do with the sox collapse. If you had watched the games I'd be inclined to think you'd agree.
Then you would be the person in a position to provide us with the specifics of Francona's mismangement.
What precisely did Francona do, or fail to do, which caused the Sox to start losing after a long stretch of winning? In what manner did he manage differently than he had when the Sox were in first place?
What should Francona be held accountable for this season?
Should he be responsible for Cameron, Drew, and Crawford not hitting? Youkilis' injuries? Lackey's marriage and personal issues. This team might need a slight overhaul Changing the manager isn't going to make next years Red Sox a winner but wherever Francona goes, I bet that team will improve! Face the facts, the guy is a solid manager that was in charge of a team that was free falling. No manager was going to turn that one around.
Then you would be the person in a position to provide us with the specifics of Francona's mismangement.
What precisely did Francona do, or fail to do, which caused the Sox to start losing after a long stretch of winning? In what manner did he manage differently than he had when the Sox were in first place?
Its pretty obvious franconna should have been managing pretty different in september when they were in first plaste cruising for a playoff bid versus when they were clinging to a playoff bid desperately trying to win 2 more games and get into the playoffs. The fact that he did not manage any different is exactly the problem. The rest is a copy and paste.
Francona is certainely not at sole fault for this collapse, he played a very large role just as many others. He's not a bad manager, not great either, one thing he is greatly overated. Francona made many terrbile moves, from allowing bard to blow 4! games in september while leaving Papelbon on the bench, not putting acceves in the rotation, letting the rookie catcher cause gonzales to get walked over and over again. Leaving lackey in to not only give up 4-5 runs a game, sometimes 9-10 runs.
There's rumors of sox players drinking before games(and when asked point blank Franconna did not deny this). And thats on francona.
As for playing the hand he's dealt, for the past several years Franconna has been handed teams that were stacked, and this years team despite injuries was very good as well. 2 legit mvp candidates, an elite closer another very good bullpen guy in a acceves. 4 all stars(should have been 6) is not a bad hand to be dealt. They had injuries just like everyone else, yes had big time flaws and at the end only 2 solid sp(beckett, and Lester, should had acceves too and thats franconna's fault). But this team was good enough talent wise to make the playoffs and he has to take some of the blame.
Well, that is everyone save the pitcher and catcher. You need to be more specific. Are you saying the pitching was the same but the defenders collapsed and played poorly? Do you have some data of any sort upon which you base this?
Are you saying that the infielders and outfielders collapsed offensively as well? That is clearly not the case, I provided the data which shows that their offense performed as well in Septemeber as it had for the rest of the year.
No, no hard data. I'm not into stats and such. Just know what I saw over and over going on the field.
I'm not blaming Terry. I'd be perfectly happy if he stayed. IF he could gain control over the players again.
Heard on the news this morning that Theo may have to watch his back too.
No, no hard data. I'm not into stats and such. Just know what I saw over and over going on the field.
.
You know what you saw, but you have not provided any specifics as I requested. What did you see? ...it should be easy for you to recollect since it was going on "over and over."
Its pretty obvious franconna should have been managing pretty different in september when they were in first plaste cruising for a playoff bid versus when they were clinging to a playoff bid desperately trying to win 2 more games and get into the playoffs. The fact that he did not manage any different is exactly the problem. The rest is a copy and paste.
Why is this obvious?
Why should he quit doing the things the had the team winning almost 2 out of every 3 games.
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Francona is certainely not at sole fault for this collapse, he played a very large role just as many others. He's not a bad manager, not great either, one thing he is greatly overated. Francona made many terrbile moves, from allowing bard to blow 4! games in september while leaving Papelbon on the bench,
You can't just look at things in retrospect and say "that was the wrong move because it failed to work".
What 4 games did Bard blow? AT THE TIME what evidence was there that Papelbon was the better choice?
Remember, it was Papelbon that blew the last game of the season. No guarantee that he succeeds where Bard failed.
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letting the rookie catcher cause gonzales to get walked over and over again.
what?
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Leaving lackey in to not only give up 4-5 runs a game, sometimes 9-10 runs.
Lackey gave up 9 runs twice this season. Both times in April and May. He never gave up 10.
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As for playing the hand he's dealt, for the past several years Franconna has been handed teams that were stacked, and this years team despite injuries was very good as well. 2 legit mvp candidates, an elite closer another very good bullpen guy in a acceves. 4 all stars(should have been 6) is not a bad hand to be dealt. They had injuries just like everyone else, yes had big time flaws and at the end only 2 solid sp(beckett, and Lester, should had acceves too and thats franconna's fault). But this team was good enough talent wise to make the playoffs and he has to take some of the blame.
They missed by 1 game and won about as many games as would have been expected given the injuries to key players
Someone who wasn't responsible for the biggest collapse in baseball history
If you look up Cy Young (I think you'll agree, he was a fairly decent pitcher, yes?) in the Baseball Encyclopedia, you'll see that in 1906--after three years of turning in seasons when he won more than 25 games each year--he went 13-21. By your logic, the Red Sox should have dropped him like a hot potato. Yet he went 22-15 in '07 for Boston, and 21-11 in '08.
Maybe--this is just a wild guess on my part--but just maybe, you shouldn't assume that a team managed by Francona would always go through a disastrous collapse.
Tell the truth--you stayed up real late thinking up this thread, didn't you?
The Chicago White Sox be interested in hiring him as their manager??? They want to pay a man who just allowed his team to completely collapse in the month of September. What is the big appeal about Francona? Is it because he won a WS a hundred years ago?
Why is this obvious?
Why should he quit doing the things the had the team winning almost 2 out of every 3 games.
Because his roster was different, and the consequences for loses every games changed as time went on
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Originally Posted by filihok
You can't just look at things in retrospect and say "that was the wrong move because it failed to work".
What 4 games did Bard blow? AT THE TIME what evidence was there that Papelbon was the better choice?
September 7,10,14,20
Jonathan Papelbon- September era 3.72
Bard-10.64
August-Bard-3.64
August-Papelbon-0.00
In september franconna had august and the previous parts of the season to deal with and papelbon was dominant.
Papelbon was the better option but the most glaring mistake of franconna is not having bard start these innings with papelbon on the bench but allowing bard to pitch these games until he had lost them. If you noticed he did not do this the last week of the season, opting for papelbon when bard put guys on base. He should have made this realization earlier.
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Originally Posted by filihok
They missed by 1 game and won about as many games as would have been expected given the injuries to key players
You think the team they played for the last month was one of the worst in baseball? Only good enough to play .259 ball?
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