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View Poll Results: Rangers vs Cards?
Rangers! 35 56.45%
Cards! 22 35.48%
My team lost but I like Cake! 5 8.06%
Voters: 62. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-21-2011, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,302,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
If you intentionally load the bases with no one out, you deny your pitcher one of his chief weapons...the four balls he is allowed to throw while attempting to fool the batter. The pitcher can no longer aim for the corners hoping to get the batter to chase something out of the strikezone because a walk is now terribly damaging....and with no one out, you have to retire three consecutive batters without the use of that weapon.

It is a trade off....giving up that ability to try and get batters to chase a bad pitch in exchange for setting up the force at home and a possible double play.

I would think that the most sensible thing would have been to attempt to retire Hamiliton with borderline pitches. If it winds up as a walk, then you are no worse off than if you had issued one intentionally...and he might get himself out chasing the bad pitches.
Here was the pitch location.


BrooksBaseball

I'll let other people decide if it was borderline.
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,119,848 times
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filihok...

I don't know what pitch you are referencing with that chart nor how it relates to my post.
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,302,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
filihok...

I don't know what pitch you are referencing with that chart nor how it relates to my post.
It was Rhodes' (successful?) lone pitch to attempt to retire Hamilton.
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Old 10-21-2011, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,119,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
It was Rhodes' (successful?) lone pitch to attempt to retire Hamilton.
And the point you wish to make with that presentation?
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,302,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
And the point you wish to make with that presentation?
You stated:
Quote:
the most sensible thing would have been to attempt to retire Hamiliton with borderline pitches
I looked up the pitch location for 2 reasons
1) I didn't see the game and was curious what pitch Rhodes threw
2) To see if Hamilton did hit a borderline pitch

Rhodes certainly didn't paint the black with it, nor was it right down the middle.

Whether the Cardinals were in agreement with your idea and Rhodes failed to execute or whether they were being more aggressive with Hamilton isn't made clear by the data.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 24,119,848 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filihok View Post
You stated:

I looked up the pitch location for 2 reasons
1) I didn't see the game and was curious what pitch Rhodes threw
2) To see if Hamilton did hit a borderline pitch

Rhodes certainly didn't paint the black with it, nor was it right down the middle.

Whether the Cardinals were in agreement with your idea and Rhodes failed to execute or whether they were being more aggressive with Hamilton isn't made clear by the data.
Oh, okay. I did watch the game and I'm no better positioned to say if it was a misaimed pitch or the product of going after Hamilton.

Have you one of those charts which shows where Hamilton likes the pitch and where he has trouble? If the opposition has been getting him out with pitches up and inside, that might hint that the Cards were trying to be aggressive.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
13,285 posts, read 15,302,626 times
Reputation: 6658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Oh, okay. I did watch the game and I'm no better positioned to say if it was a misaimed pitch or the product of going after Hamilton.

Have you one of those charts which shows where Hamilton likes the pitch and where he has trouble? If the opposition has been getting him out with pitches up and inside, that might hint that the Cards were trying to be aggressive.
The pitch was up and outside. The POV for the graph I posted is from the catcher/ump.

Those charts are fraught with small sample size issues. I know that MLB.com shows it online on gameday, but it is apparently not available through the player page-or, at least, I can't find it.

Here's video of the at bat, looks to me like Molina sets up farther outside and leans back in to catch the ball before Hamilton sac flies it into right.
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Everywhere.
2,036 posts, read 1,604,422 times
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This may very well end up being a great World Series. It has been very suspenseful to this point, with great pitching and defense by both teams in Games 1 and 2. As the 2011 World Series heads to Texas for Games 3 through 5, it could require a return trip back to St. Louis for games 6 and 7, with a key hit or clutch defensive play that will finally decide the winner.
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Old 10-21-2011, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,977,099 times
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Quote:
D. Bring in Rhodes to face Hamilton, but hide Motte somewhere in the field for that one batter so that he could return to face Young and Beltre.
That can be done once per inning, and has been done, I think by LaRussa among others. Motte could be put in left field with Rhodes replacing the LF in the batting order, then Mott back to the mound with a new LF. Motte was a catcher in the minor leagues, and could probably handle a position pretty respectably if the ball is hit to him. I'd love to see the play at the plate, with Motte, warmed up, firing a 100-mph fastball to Molina from left field.


I just noticed that there hasn't been a WS Game-7 since 2002.

If you think about it, you can argue that every 7-game series is decided by a mistake. In 2002, for example, in game 2, Glaus advanced to third on Lofton's error in the 5th inning, and scored on a sac-fly. The Angels won by one run, which wouldn't have scored but for Lofton's error. Maybe this year, that mistake has already been made by Pujols.

Last edited by jtur88; 10-21-2011 at 08:23 PM..
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Texas
1,632 posts, read 483,463 times
Reputation: 509
Allen Craig will start Game 3.

And...
World Series 2011 -- St. Louis Cardinals' Albert Pujols unapologetic for skipping out on media after Game 2 - ESPN
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