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Old 07-26-2018, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,977,874 times
Reputation: 21237

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Thank you, I didn't know such pages existed. I was hoping for a chart which compared scoring in specific innings by all teams, but the above does show that what I thought I was seeing, I have been seeing.

The A's three best innings for scoring this year have been:
7th 0.54
8th 0.74
9th 0.64

Simultaneously their best innings at preventing opposition runs have been the 8th and 9th.

The strategy of falling behind early and storming ahead late isn't something you would plan for, or try to design, but it has made for fun, exciting games. The A's starter gets roughed up early, but the bullpen comes in and shuts off the opposition scoring. Meanwhile the A's take a lot of pitches, foul off a lot of pitches, and chase the opposition starter by exhaustion more so than by scoring runs. And then they muscle up and pile on the runs against the relief pitchers.

Even if the A's turn sour and fall from contention, this will still have been a good year to be an A's fan. They have been playing better than expected and really giving the fans their money's worth.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:35 AM
 
5,938 posts, read 4,672,690 times
Reputation: 4630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
Maz is not in the Hall because of his integrity, he is in because:
A) He was the greatest defensive second baseman of all time and the 22nd best at any position...going by WAR, Of course the voters were not going by WAR when they voted, rather by his defensive reputation, which turned out to have a solid basis.
2. He hit the home run in the '60 WS......and we all know this was a factor despite the voting guidelines specifically stating that singular deeds within a game or season were not to be taken into account.
So you are saying Mazeroski lacked character!?

1. You are right, they didn't have WAR in late 70s/early 80s. Yet, even being the "greatest defensive second basemen of all time" he still was passed over - and garnered less HoF votes than than those other players on that list. I suppose the definition of "greatest defensive second baseman of all time" changed between then and now?

2. You'd be rather naive to think that it doesn't factor in. Sure, they aren't supposed to take it into account. How many writers did we hear talk about Jack Morris' 10-inning WS Game 7...

Quote:
In your post to which I first responded, you quoted BBWAA rules for election to the Hall, pointing out that they were allowed to use character as part of the criteria. However, your Maz example is not one where election was a consequence of character, rather it was a matter of the voter's overrating Maz's playing contributions. I asked for another example of someone who was in on the basis of character...the criteria you raised.
The Maz non-election was handled properly by the BBWAA. He did not meet the criteria. And the Ray Schalk non-election was also handled properly by the BBWAA. They both peaked at around 25% support.

The criteria I mentioned was under the incorrect belief that I thought we shared (maybe not?) that Schalk was elected by the BBWAA. Hence why I listed the statement about character and integrity since that is part of the election guidelines. I can't really find what guidelines the Veterans' Committee follows. In my opinion, Mazeroski's "character" could have been his "clutchness" in the 1960 WS. I don't know if that's how the writers or the Veterans' Committee saw it though. But that was where I was going with it when I typed up that post.

In regards to Mazeroski being the best defensive second basemen of all time - I read a few articles that claim he is or if not, that he is second to George McPhee. However, we DO have this WAR metric now. And when you compare Mazeroski to another "best defensive whatever of all time" you come up with Ozzie Smith. Not the same position, but his WAR is double Mazeroski's while his offensive numbers are even lower. Smith's value was his defense. I think we can't put Mazeroski on the same tier as Smith and claim "since they are the best defensive player of this position they should be in the Hall of Fame."
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,977,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dspguy View Post

The criteria I mentioned was under the incorrect belief that I thought we shared (maybe not?) that Schalk was elected by the BBWAA. Hence why I listed the statement about character and integrity since that is part of the election guidelines. I can't really find what guidelines the Veterans' Committee follows.
I have always assumed that the criteria is the same for the Vets committee as it is for the writers. I have to admit that I do not know this, it never occurred to me that it might be different. Of course, why would it change...and it it was different, what would the differences be?
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Old 07-26-2018, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,977,874 times
Reputation: 21237
Okay, it took awhile going page by page, but I've compiled a ranking of teams by average runs scored in the 9th inning. I am happy to report that my initial suspicion was validated, Oakland leads the AL in 9th inning runs. Tampa Bay is close behind, but the rest of the field trails by a greater margin.

Average runs scored in the 9th:
A's .64
Rays .62
Yankees .56
Red Sox .55
Indians .52
Astros .49
Rangers .46
Orioles .45
Blue Jays .45
Tigers .44
Twins .37
Angels .35
White Sox .34
Mariners .29
Royals .25

Thanks again to CBeisbol for locating the data.

Last edited by Grandstander; 07-26-2018 at 03:03 PM..
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:09 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,904,415 times
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Yankees acquire starting pitcher JA Happ.

Happ has been pretty good, about 10% better than an average starter. And probably becomes the Yankees' 3nd Best starter.

The Yankees give up infielder Brandon Drury, who's a bench guy who probably wasn't going to be on the Yankees' bench anyway. Also included, by decree, was OF Bily Mckinney who was also traded at the deadline in 2016 and 2014. He looks like a fringe starter for an out of contention team.
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
48,564 posts, read 23,977,874 times
Reputation: 21237
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Also included, by decree, was OF Bily Mckinney who was also traded at the deadline in 2016 and 2014. He looks like a fringe starter for an out of contention team.
McKinney was a top 100 prospect in both Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus in 2015. In 2016 the Prospectus ranked him # 74, but he vanished from the BA list. In 2017 he was gone from both lists and has not returned. That is a career moving in the wrong direction.

I noticed that he has been with at least two different teams every season of his minor league career, eleven different teams in six years. I wondered if never being left somewhere long enough to prove himself might have hurt his performance, but the longest he has ever been with any team was 88 games for Double A Tennessee and he posted a .677 OPS with them compared to .779 for his whole career.

McKiney is 23 years old, and in ten years it looks like he has a chance to be 33.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:58 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,904,415 times
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Cole Hamels to the Cubs.
He s a fraction of what he was.

He'll be the 4th or 5th best guy in Chicago's rotation depending on Darvish's health
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:29 AM
 
5,938 posts, read 4,672,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Yankees acquire starting pitcher JA Happ.

Happ has been pretty good, about 10% better than an average starter. And probably becomes the Yankees' 3nd Best starter.
10% better than the average starter is probably 30% better than the back end of the Yankee rotation. It's a good rental. I think Brandon Drury was redundant for the Yankees. I don't know anything about the Triple-A player though.
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
9,701 posts, read 7,363,396 times
Reputation: 4097
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Cole Hamels to the Cubs.
He s a fraction of what he was.

He'll be the 4th or 5th best guy in Chicago's rotation depending on Darvish's health

This is good for the Cubs for 1 of 2 reasons:

1) It either sends Mike Montgomery out of the rotation and back to the bullpen to strengthen that area or 2
2) It knocks Tyler "walks" Chatwood out of the rotation. And unless Hamels walks the entire ballpark which I doubt he will, no matter what Hamels does will be better then what Chatwood had been doing.
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Old 07-27-2018, 05:14 PM
 
3,565 posts, read 1,904,415 times
Reputation: 3732
Phillies get IF Asdrubal Cabrera from the Mets for minor league pitcher Franklin Kilome.

Cabrera's on pace for about a 3 WAR season. Mostly on the strength of his bat (120 wRC+). He'll most likely play mostly SS for the Phillies who've had Scott Kingery disappoint filling in for top prospect JP Crawford who's been injured.



The DBacks got IF Eduardo Escobar from the Twins for 3 low level prospects. Escobar Is having a bit stronger season than Cabrera being on pace for 3.5 WAR. He'll likely get time at SS and 3B where Nick Ahmed provides little with the bat and Jake Lamb doesn't hit lefties.

Related: the Twins recalled disappointing former top prospect Miguel Sank.

Also related: Escobar, a player I've long liked, is not as good as Manny Machado
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