The old grey mare ain't like she used to be? (pitchers, games)

[Norm Barnes]

AMEN. Welcome to your home for next 13 years. Do like Ruth -- Good luck.

[Phil A. Delphia]

Remember when ballplayers used to appear like apparitions right out of a full grown corn field, and play just once more for merely the love of the game...

[duster1979]

Originally Posted by bachslunch

It should be noted that Mays, Aaron, and Maris were not “one team players” their whole career, too. Their long-time employer apparently had no problem moving on from them when it seemed to suit their interests, did they? So much for loyalty. And if you think Derek Jeter wasn’t playing “for the bread,” you’re dreaming.

None of those three players ever moved on when it "suited their interests". Mays was traded to the Mets so that the Giants wouldn't have to pay his pension, Aaron was traded to the Brewers when he didn't retire after setting the home run record like the Braves wanted him to, and Maris was always a journeyman who happened to have a couple of outstanding years.

It was a different game back then, those guys had virtually no control over their careers. And the top salary of the three of them - Aaron in 1976 - adjusted for inflation works out to about the major league minimum today.

[bachslunch]

Originally Posted by duster1979

None of those three players ever moved on when it "suited their interests". Mays was traded to the Mets so that the Giants wouldn't have to pay his pension, Aaron was traded to the Brewers when he didn't retire after setting the home run record like the Braves wanted him to, and Maris was always a journeyman who happened to have a couple of outstanding years.

It was a different game back then, those guys had virtually no control over their careers. And the top salary of the three of them - Aaron in 1976 - adjusted for inflation works out to about the major league minimum today.

I thought what I was saying earlier was that in the cases of Aaron and Mays, the TEAM moved on from the player when it suited the TEAM’s interest, no matter how great he had been for them in the past. Not what you suggest.

In other words, it bothers me that people chide players for lacking loyalty if they don’t play their whole career with one team, yet they don’t seem to have a problem if the team doesn’t reciprocate. Loyalty is a two-way street.

I don’t think anybody owes anybody here. Players should be free to head elsewhere at points when they have free agency, and teams should be able to drop players when they no longer feel the player is useful once their contract is up. Yet some folks get up in arms when the player doesn’t stay loyal to their team, often expecting them to take a hometown discount or some such. It’s the failure to hold both sides to the same standards that I find bothersome.

Some comedian once noted that if you’re a fan of a particular team, you’re rooting for laundry. There’s a bit of truth to this.

[Norm Barnes]

What has changed today is attentiin span, understanding only in a negative manner, and havingr noses so deep in the internet there is no time set to breathe the air. We are all coming to a stop sign and rolling through. Our consideration of success is our monetary value. We weep very little because we would be considered a wuss. I don't get paid being a fan. I don't wake up morning after a game and admire anybodys bank account. He has every right to go for the bread now lets see if he has the b___s to go for the gold or just another ripoff. A Chip Kelly specialty. Gosh I admire that guy look at the money he made. NOT!!!!. These outrageous salaries are skinning us at the ticket office and refreshment venues. Baseball is so costly now how can you afford to go it to the park. If money isn't the problem and outrageous salaries isn't the problem then excusee me as I throw up. Shoot there are people who live to criticize love to be anti everything. Well sorry but 330K is a great deal of money lets see if this thoroughbred is worth that kind of money. Early results show 3 walks and a strike out. Very impressive. Granted it was one long foul ball. Iits not about Bryce he looks great. It is. Bigger its about the greed. Goldfingers out there have little i would be interested in hearing so save the breath. Baseball was once a game of challenges now there are bunch of money hungry players who take a way the value of being a part of something bigger.

[BobNJ1960]

Originally Posted by bachslunch

In other words, it bothers me that people chide players for lacking loyalty if they don’t play their whole career with one team, yet they don’t seem to have a problem if the team doesn’t reciprocate. Loyalty is a two-way street.

I don’t think anybody owes anybody here. .

I view it like Employment At Will. Both parties act correctly when they act 100% in SOLELY their own, selfish interest. That produces an equilibrium point in the middle.

[bachslunch]

Originally Posted by Norm Barnes

I don't get paid being a fan.

Nobody does. Fans of anything usually don't get paid for being so.

Originally Posted by Norm Barnes

These outrageous salaries are skinning us at the ticket office and refreshment venues.

Don't agree. The owners are charging what they think the market will bear. My guess is that they would be charging these prices regardless of player salary level.

Originally Posted by Norm Barnes

Baseball is so costly now how can you afford to go it to the park.

It's easy to minimize your costs if you plan a bit. Take public transport to the park. Eat at home or sneak in a bag of peanuts or something similar. Buy a bleacher seat. Forego the foam fingers and other souvenirs.

Besides, the price of a ballgame isn't that different from other types of entertainment such as a night at the theater, or a rock or major classical concert. Movies are a little cheaper, at least.

Originally Posted by Norm Barnes

Well sorry but 330K is a great deal of money lets see if this thoroughbred is worth that kind of money. Early results show 3 walks and a strike out. Very impressive. Granted it was one long foul ball. Iits not about Bryce he looks great. It is.

There's no question somebody thought Harper was worth that kind of money or they wouldn't have paid him accordingly. I have no problem with Harper trying to get that kind of money if he can. I know I wouldn't say no.

And actually, three walks isn't a bad thing at all. The whole point of baseball from the offensive end is to not make outs, and sometimes a pitcher just won't give you anything good to hit. In that case, take what you can get. Sure, a home run would be better, but that doesn't always happen.

Originally Posted by Norm Barnes

Bigger its about the greed. Goldfingers out there have little i would be interested in hearing so save the breath. Baseball was once a game of challenges now there are bunch of money hungry players who take a way the value of being a part of something bigger.

If we're talking about greed, I think both players and owners qualify -- though I'm not sure it isn't just a question of trying to obtain as much money as possible rather than sheer greed. Like it or not, baseball is a business and always has been. And as for challenges, my guess is that Harper is going to try his hardest to make the signing look good -- and I'd certainly call that a challenge. Philly fans are among the toughest to please in MLB, and if he doesn't do well, they'll let him have it. YMMV.

[SpiritualBaseball]

Originally Posted by bachslunch

Nobody does. Fans of anything usually don't get paid for being so.



Don't agree. The owners are charging what they think the market will bear. My guess is that they would be charging these prices regardless of player salary level.



It's easy to minimize your costs if you plan a bit. Take public transport to the park. Eat at home or sneak in a bag of peanuts or something similar. Buy a bleacher seat. Forego the foam fingers and other souvenirs.

Besides, the price of a ballgame isn't that different from other types of entertainment such as a night at the theater, or a rock or major classical concert. Movies are a little cheaper, at least.



There's no question somebody thought Harper was worth that kind of money or they wouldn't have paid him accordingly. I have no problem with Harper trying to get that kind of money if he can. I know I wouldn't say no.

And actually, three walks isn't a bad thing at all. The whole point of baseball from the offensive end is to not make outs, and sometimes a pitcher just won't give you anything good to hit. In that case, take what you can get. Sure, a home run would be better, but that doesn't always happen.



If we're talking about greed, I think both players and owners qualify -- though I'm not sure it isn't just a question of trying to obtain as much money as possible rather than sheer greed. Like it or not, baseball is a business and always has been. And as for challenges, my guess is that Harper is going to try his hardest to make the signing look good -- and I'd certainly call that a challenge. Philly fans are among the toughest to please in MLB, and if he doesn't do well, they'll let him have it. YMMV.

Pretty much nailed it.


Just adding: If Harper had 3 walks and a K in every game it would be one of the greatest offensive season in history.

Quick back of the napkin calc, 150 games with 4 PA per game in 600 PA. 3 walks per game is 450 walks. That's a .540 wOBA

Barry Bonds in 2002 had a .544 wOBA
That year he hit .370/.582/.799

Bryce's. 000/.750/.000 line would be roughly equivilant. Because, turns out, not getting out is really good.

[STL2006]

Originally Posted by SpiritualBaseball

Pretty much nailed it.


Just adding: If Harper had 3 walks and a K in every game it would be one of the greatest offensive season in history.

Quick back of the napkin calc, 150 games with 4 PA per game in 600 PA. 3 walks per game is 450 walks. That's a .540 wOBA

Barry Bonds in 2002 had a .544 wOBA
That year he hit .370/.582/.799

Bruce's. 000/.750/.000 line would be roughly equivilant. Because, turns out, not getting out is really good.

Maybe one of the greatest OBP seasons. I wouldn’t refer to 0 hits, 0 HRs, 10 RBI (bases loaded walks?), .750 OPS, and 150+ Ks as a great offensive season.

[SpiritualBaseball]

Originally Posted by STL2006

Maybe one of the greatest OBP seasons. I wouldn’t refer to 0 hits, 0 HRs, 10 RBI (bases loaded walks?), .750 OPS, and 150+ Ks as a great offensive season.

I see you left out runs scored
Why'd you do that?

And runners who advanced from 1st to second, or second to third
Why'd you do that?

Also, outs,
He only got out 150 times during an entire season

Maybe you don't understand what wOBA is, it takes the expected run value of each event (a walk is less than a hit is less than a double is less than a triple is less than a home run) and divides by the number of times at the plate. Harper's imaginary 3-walk-per-game season would be expected to produce as many runs as Barry Bonds' 2002 season.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOBA