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Old 08-15-2019, 03:37 PM
 
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Why do major league teams use a five man rotation? Earl Weaver said in his book on managing that there aren't that many good pitchers so on the fifth day you're sending someone out there with a lesser chance of winning.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:16 PM
 
Location: ABQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubyaM View Post
Why do major league teams use a five man rotation? Earl Weaver said in his book on managing that there aren't that many good pitchers so on the fifth day you're sending someone out there with a lesser chance of winning.
Some teams flirt with 6-man rotations. But overwhelmingly, you have a flex 5-man. It's because they're playing almost every damn day for 6 straight months. By the end of a season, heading into the most important stretches, do you want to see your best pitchers' arms fall off?

Back to the flex part: The 5th starter doesn't start as often as the #1 or #2 starter. If, for instance, your team plays 4 games in a row to begin the season, and there is an off-day before the 5th game, the #1 starter's slot will appear a second time before the 5th starter pitches, and in that case, it's likely the case that the 5th starter will have appeared in some form of mop-up relief duty in between.

So there's definitely some variation involved.
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Old 08-15-2019, 04:28 PM
 
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In Earl Weaver's day, the average fastball was probably around 87mph. Compared to around 92 today.

So, arms weren't as tired and blown out at the time.

That's why you had alot more complete games back in the day (My opinion, of course) and why we're so shocked today at players like Jamie Moyer who had a 20+ year career and very few injuries.

I tend to have far more respect for a Moyer style pitcher than say.. Randy Johnson. Or, maybe, different respect.

Maddux is another one. His average fastball was 86mph. But his control was astounding.

And that's all we have today for managers corner on the Baltimore ****ing Orioles radio ****ing network.Go **** yourself.



I can't think of Earl Weaver without thinking of that joke broadcast.. If you've never heard it.. NSFW.. But it's wonderful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWQbN0jFo_k
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Old 08-15-2019, 06:57 PM
 
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Of course, back in the day starting pitchers were more prone to have careers ruined with sore arms from overuse. Four man rotations as well as laxness on pitch counts had a lot to do with it. Not every pitcher suffered from this issue, but several did. Off the top of my head, folks like Mark Fidrych, Wayne Simpson, Boo Ferris, Sandy Koufax, and Matt Keough has their careers end prematurely this way.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
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Originally Posted by bachslunch View Post
Of course, back in the day starting pitchers were more prone to have careers ruined with sore arms from overuse. Four man rotations as well as laxness on pitch counts had a lot to do with it. Not every pitcher suffered from this issue, but several did. Off the top of my head, folks like Mark Fidrych, Wayne Simpson, Boo Ferris, Sandy Koufax, and Matt Keough has their careers end prematurely this way.
Ferris and Koufax were the only two on the list who pitched primarily in a 4-man rotation, though. And Keough's career was ended by a foul ball to the temple during spring training. He'd had some arm trouble early in his career but worked back from it and pitched several more seasons in MLB and Japan before the foul ball took him out.

Andy Messersmith is one you could add to the list. He primarily pitched in a 5-man rotation but did have seasons of 38, 39, and 40 starts along the way. He still has one of the lowest career ERAs of the live-ball era.

Of course, on the converse side you've got guys like Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Gaylord Perry, and Don Sutton whom all started 35-40 games a year in their primes, completed half of them or more, and managed to pitch 20 or more years.
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Old 08-15-2019, 09:40 PM
 
4,483 posts, read 9,333,438 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubyaM View Post
Why do major league teams use a five man rotation? Earl Weaver said in his book on managing that there aren't that many good pitchers so on the fifth day you're sending someone out there with a lesser chance of winning.



Expansion has watered down the talent far more than 5-man rotations.


In Japan pitchers pitch once/week. I don't know if they have fewer injuries or not.



Whether it's a 5-man rotation or a 6-man rotation, I hope MLB teams eventually reject "openers" and stick with some sort of starting rotation.
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Parts Unknown, Northern California
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duster1979 View Post

Of course, on the converse side you've got guys like Nolan Ryan, Tom Seaver, Steve Carlton, Gaylord Perry, and Don Sutton whom all started 35-40 games a year in their primes, completed half of them or more, and managed to pitch 20 or more years.
Those guys represented the exceptions rather than the rule. Taking the anecdotal approach, saying these three guys all broke down early, but these four guys had great longevity despite the workload, only tells us about that handful of pitchers. The decision to reduce workloads came from studies which reviewed all pitchers.

And Gaylord Perry managed to last a long time by transforming himself into a soft tossing junkballer the last decade of his career. I saw him pitch several times and I would always want to grab a bat and go down there and try and hit him myself. He had almost no pitching motion any longer, just stood on the mound and his arm would snake around a bit and this lollipop would float toward the plate. However, those lollipops were still making the hitters look silly most of the time. I don't know how he did it, but he did.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Phila & NYC
4,811 posts, read 3,336,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
In Earl Weaver's day, the average fastball was probably around 87mph. Compared to around 92 today.

So, arms weren't as tired and blown out at the time.

That's why you had alot more complete games back in the day (My opinion, of course) and why we're so shocked today at players like Jamie Moyer who had a 20+ year career and very few injuries.

I tend to have far more respect for a Moyer style pitcher than say.. Randy Johnson. Or, maybe, different respect.

Maddux is another one. His average fastball was 86mph. But his control was astounding.

And that's all we have today for managers corner on the Baltimore ****ing Orioles radio ****ing network.Go **** yourself.



I can't think of Earl Weaver without thinking of that joke broadcast.. If you've never heard it.. NSFW.. But it's wonderful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWQbN0jFo_k

I would venture to say the average v-load back in the 80's was less then 87. It was 87 at the turn of the century (year 2000). Reached 90 about 2007/2008. Today it's closing in on 93/94.
Back in the good old days, hitters were much more free swingers and not as disciplined at the plate, and strikeouts are up. More pitches being thrown per batter and per inning.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:36 AM
 
1,584 posts, read 991,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
And Gaylord Perry managed to last a long time by transforming himself into a soft tossing junkballer the last decade of his career. I saw him pitch several times and I would always want to grab a bat and go down there and try and hit him myself. He had almost no pitching motion any longer, just stood on the mound and his arm would snake around a bit and this lollipop would float toward the plate. However, those lollipops were still making the hitters look silly most of the time. I don't know how he did it, but he did.
It’s like real estate: location, location, location.

Same thing with a knuckleballer who’s on that day.
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Old 08-17-2019, 07:57 PM
 
17,759 posts, read 15,560,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandstander View Post
And Gaylord Perry managed to last a long time by transforming himself into a soft tossing junkballer the last decade of his career. I saw him pitch several times and I would always want to grab a bat and go down there and try and hit him myself. He had almost no pitching motion any longer, just stood on the mound and his arm would snake around a bit and this lollipop would float toward the plate. However, those lollipops were still making the hitters look silly most of the time. I don't know how he did it, but he did.

Hasn't he admitted to basically throwing a spitball through most of his career?

I'd say that might have something to do with it.
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