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Old 05-28-2021, 09:51 AM
 
10,501 posts, read 7,029,926 times
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An 5-3-2-9-4 E / E with a run scored?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThwJiusfcNs
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Keosauqua, Iowa
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It appears that they're calling it a missed catch error on the first baseman. But I don't really agree with that because he did catch the ball up the line prior to making the (bad) decision to chase Baez for the tag rather than just stepping on the base. If the throw had pulled him in the other direction and Baez had beat the first baseman back to the bag it would have been a throwing error on the third baseman.

I think it's a fielder's choice, myself, because Craig ultimately chose to go for the play at the plate rather than first. The throw to the second baseman covering first - or more accurately, finally on his way to cover first - wasn't close to the bag so even if he had caught the ball you can't assume that he would have beaten Baez. So even though errors occurred, you can't directly tie them to Baez getting on base without making some assumptions which MLB scoring doesn't allow.

The catcher's throw to the second baseman being called an error for allowing Baez to advance to second was correct, IMHO.
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Old 05-28-2021, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Trumbull/Danbury
9,753 posts, read 7,463,064 times
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There's so many things wrong with this play. When I first saw it, I as giving about equal praise to Baez and equal ridicule to the first basemen, but the more time I watch this, the more I'm leaning towards this was just a dumb, mental error more than a great play by Baez.

1) There's 2 outs! Just take a step or 2 backwards and touch the base. What the hell are you trying to do tagging him??

2) Since there were 2 outs, and it was going to be a force play at first, it doesn't matter if Contreras scores.....he could keep rounding the bases as far as the Pirates should've been concerned, because the run ONLY counts if Baez is safe at first.

3) With number 2 said, even if you don't touch the base, just stand at the bag. Baez has to reach first to be safe, so just stand at the bag. After a while he'll either walk out of the baseline, or he'll make a run towards first, at that point just step on the bag, which should've been the first option from the get go.

4) What the hell was the second basemen or pitcher doing during all of this?? Don't they teach in little league that if fielders are in a run down to make sure bases aren't unguarded?? If the second basemen is covering fist like he's supposed to be doing, it doesn't matter whether they got Contreras at the plate or not because Baez would've been out at first by 70 feet since he was still at the plate with this "safe" call.

5) If a base runner made an out on the bases that was this awful, Twitter and the media would still be roasting and crucifying that player 30 hours later, so why should it be any different just because it was the defense that made the TOOTBLAN error??
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Old 05-28-2021, 09:19 PM
 
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I'd add why are the infielders not yelling at the first baseman to simply retreat to first base and either tag it or even just stand by it, as Baez must reach first for the run to count.

I would expect Pee Wee league first basemen to handle the play more intelligently.

This was the most boneheaded play I have ever seen.
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Old 05-29-2021, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Brackenwood
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Fieler's choice run plus throwing error by the catcher.

But really, what a complete clown show of a baseball play. Heck, even the umpire was so mystified he got it wrong -- he had no business calling Contreras safe until Baez safely reached first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7express View Post
What the hell was the second basemen or pitcher doing during all of this?? Don't they teach in little league that if fielders are in a run down to make sure bases aren't unguarded?? If the second basemen is covering fist like he's supposed to be doing, it doesn't matter whether they got Contreras at the plate or not because Baez would've been out at first by 70 feet since he was still at the plate with this "safe" call.
It probably didn't occur to them to cover first because nobody in their life had ever seen a "rundown" between home plate and first base. There was no reason or urgency to cover first until the dipstick first baseman flipped the ball to the catcher. And speaking of the catcher, once again there's no reason for anyone to cover first if he just reaches out and tags Baez once the ball is flipped to him instead of trying to tag out Contreras.

There's so much stupid in this play by so many actors it's difficult to quantify all of it.

Last edited by Bitey; 05-29-2021 at 07:50 AM..
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Old 05-30-2021, 04:12 AM
 
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FC does not require an out. Grounder to first, 1B elects to throw to second, but the 2B is late covering -- still a FC, not a base hit. No error, unless a fielder actually fumbles the ball in play or makes a wild throw. In this case, Runner scores, RBI Baez. Baez reaches first on FC. Can't charge an Error if nobody is covering the base, Baez free to return to first as a continuation of the original FC, and advances to second on the play. I don't see any chargeable errors.

Analagous: After a force at second, runner safe at first and thinks the relay throw got away, so rounds first for second. 1B looks a runner back to third and throws late to second. Simply "advanced on the play". Happens all the time.

Last edited by arr430; 05-30-2021 at 04:45 AM..
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Old 05-30-2021, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
9,975 posts, read 5,672,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arr430 View Post
FC does not require an out. Grounder to first, 1B elects to throw to second, but the 2B is late covering -- still a FC, not a base hit. No error, unless a fielder actually fumbles the ball in play or makes a wild throw. In this case, Runner scores, RBI Baez. Baez reaches first on FC. Can't charge an Error if nobody is covering the base, Baez free to return to first as a continuation of the original FC, and advances to second on the play. I don't see any chargeable errors.

Analagous: After a force at second, runner safe at first and thinks the relay throw got away, so rounds first for second. 1B looks a runner back to third and throws late to second. Simply "advanced on the play". Happens all the time.
Throwing error by the catcher allowed Baez to advance to second.
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Old 05-30-2021, 10:09 PM
 
5,743 posts, read 3,595,151 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bitey View Post
Throwing error by the catcher allowed Baez to advance to second.
Yeah, I had to watch slo-mo several times to see the throw go into right field, visible on the RF replay.. But no errors until then.
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