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Old 08-31-2022, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Beacon Falls
1,408 posts, read 1,035,889 times
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Two out, runner on second. Ground ball to the OF, the runner tries for home, but is thrown out. Is the batter awarded a base hit? I am thinking no; runner on 1st, two out, grounder to the SS who flips to the 2B, who is covering the bag, they get the runner trying to advance from 1st to 2nd. The batter is not awarded a base hit there. Same thing, no?
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Old 09-01-2022, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Phila & NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffwraith View Post
Two out, runner on second. Ground ball to the OF, the runner tries for home, but is thrown out. Is the batter awarded a base hit? I am thinking no; runner on 1st, two out, grounder to the SS who flips to the 2B, who is covering the bag, they get the runner trying to advance from 1st to 2nd. The batter is not awarded a base hit there. Same thing, no?
I would say yes, since the hitter got to the bag before the base runner from second base was thrown out at home.
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Old 09-01-2022, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Phila & NYC
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And to confirm, the hitter would be credited with a base hit. Same is true if a hitter crosses first base but is thrown out trying to stretch it into a double. The hitter is still credited with a base hit.
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Old 09-01-2022, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Beacon Falls
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Oh, so it's how soon he gets to the bag? Interesting...
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Old 09-01-2022, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Phila & NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffwraith View Post
Oh, so it's how soon he gets to the bag? Interesting...
Not neccesarily that. If the runner on 2nd was thrown out going to third it would be considered a fielders choice and no base hit. But trying to advance 2 bases is no longer an FC.
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Old 09-01-2022, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Brackenwood
10,058 posts, read 5,776,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffwraith View Post
Two out, runner on second. Ground ball to the OF, the runner tries for home, but is thrown out. Is the batter awarded a base hit? I am thinking no; runner on 1st, two out, grounder to the SS who flips to the 2B, who is covering the bag, they get the runner trying to advance from 1st to 2nd. The batter is not awarded a base hit there. Same thing, no?
The batter in your first scenario is credited with a hit because he (presumably) reached first safely and the base runner was not a forced runner, therefore it was the runner's decision to try to advance home that caused the out. It also matters that it's presumed the batter would have reached first safely even if the outfielder wasn't trying to get the runner out at home. So as long as the batter got a base hit and reached first before the unforced runner was tagged out, the batter is credited with a hit. In the second scenario he's not credited with a hit because the base runner was forced to run to second; thus the batter forced an out via fielder's choice and it counts against his batting average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by riffwraith View Post
Oh, so it's how soon he gets to the bag? Interesting...
It's more than that, it has to do with forced versus unforced base runners. If the bases were loaded and he reached first before the runner on third was forced out at home (though it's an unlikely scenario for a batter to reach first base before a force-out elsewhere), this is called "fielder's choice" and it would still count against the batter and reduce his batting average. Same goes for a force-out at second or third.

Last edited by Bitey; 09-01-2022 at 12:17 PM..
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Old 09-01-2022, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Beacon Falls
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Cool - thx!
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Old 09-02-2022, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Hiatus
7,187 posts, read 3,910,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riffwraith View Post
Two out, runner on second. Ground ball to the OF, the runner tries for home, but is thrown out. Is the batter awarded a base hit? I am thinking no; runner on 1st, two out, grounder to the SS who flips to the 2B, who is covering the bag, they get the runner trying to advance from 1st to 2nd. The batter is not awarded a base hit there. Same thing, no?
First scenario is a base hit
Second scenario is grounding into a force out, not a base hit
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Old 09-12-2022, 07:28 AM
 
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Base hit. Batter denied a hit only if
a) a preceding runner is forced out, or
b) a fielder could have retired the batter-runner with ordinary effort.

The timing issue comes into play only if the run scores, before a third out if not a force play.

Brett, striving for .400, was wrongly given a hit on this: Brett hit what should be a DP, but SS is late coveering, 2B double clutches, throws late to firs, safe all around. Wrong, it's a FC. Score a FC if an attempt is made on a preceding runner, instead of the batter, even if no out is recorded.

Last edited by arr430; 09-12-2022 at 07:40 AM..
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