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Turkeyglue came into the league at 21, Kukoc at 25.
Kukoc was 3rd banana on very good Bulls teams while Turkeyglue was at times the 1st banana (as far as running the offense goes) on some pretty good Magic teams.
I liked Hedo when he was on the early 2000s, stacked Kings teams. Hedo, Peja, Divac, Bobby Jackson, and more. Great role players. I stopped following him after that.
I'm biased towards Kukoc because I'm from Chicago and grew up watching him and was sad to see him go during rebuilding. I thought he would've been a great 2nd star, and yeah he was stuck behind MJ, Pip, and even behind Rodman and Harper.
His averages would have been higher if he was in the league younger and had a more prominent role. Their career averages are about the same right now. If Hedo stays until he is 37, his stats will be lower.
He played in a much more physical era than Hedo has.
Kukoc would have been vastly more effective in the current NBA and Hedo would have struggled a lot more in the old NBA rules\system.
Kukoc's numbers, adjusted for playing to age 37 and taking minutes played into account in terms of stats instead of "per game" would also help him IMO.
I'm biased towards Kukoc because I'm from Chicago and grew up watching him and was sad to see him go during rebuilding. I thought he would've been a great 2nd star, and yeah he was stuck behind MJ, Pip, and even behind Rodman and Harper. His averages would have been higher if he was in the league younger and had a more prominent role. Their career averages are about the same right now. If Hedo stays until he is 37, his stats will be lower.
His averages would be lower had he come into the league at a younger age like Turkeyglue.
Hedo averaged about 8 ppg from age 21-25. If we exclude Turkeyglue's first 4 years his numbers go up quite a bit. On the other hand, if we exclude Kukoc's last 4 years (he retired at 37, Hedo is 33 now) his numbers would also go up. So that's pretty much a wash.
You could argue that Kukoc would have had better stats if he were a bigger focal point of the offense, but Kukoc averaged 9.6 shots per game for his career, Turkeyglue right now is at 9.7 shots per game. Even though Turkeyglue started a lot more, he has averaged 28.5 minutes per game vs. 26.3 for Kukoc. There's not much difference there.
And Kukoc's role gave him advantages too. With Jordan and Pippen drawing so much attention on offense it makes it easier to score. He gets more open shots, more driving lanes, etc. Steve Kerr's highest season points per game seasons came playing with Jordan. He shot over 50% from the 3-point line twice playing with Jordan, and another time playing with Duncan and Robinson. Mo Williams' highest points per game season, and only all-star appearance, came playing with Lebron. His 2 highest 3PT% seasons were the two full seasons he played with Lebron as well. A lot of upper tier role players put up worse stats when they go to another team where they're more of a focal point of the offense.
One area where I think Turkeyglue is better is playmaking.
Dead even at 2.9 free throws per 36. min, although Hedo had the better FT%.
Kukoc had some impressive years in overall stats per 36 mins. In 1996 he averaged 5.8 rebounds 5.7 assists and 16.9 points per 36 minutes, which is nice.
Another interesting thing is that Kukoc had his pct fg% years early in his career and seemed to steadily decline over time. I always wonder if the other Bulls, especially Pippen, might have ragged on him and screwed with his confidence. I recall reading that Pippen and some of the others gave him crap when he came on, especially about his defense.
Dead even at 2.9 free throws per 36. min, although Hedo had the better FT%.
Kukoc had some impressive years in overall stats per 36 mins. In 1996 he averaged 5.8 rebounds 5.7 assists and 16.9 points per 36 minutes, which is nice.
Another interesting thing is that Kukoc had his pct fg% years early in his career and seemed to steadily decline over time. I always wonder if the other Bulls, especially Pippen, might have ragged on him and screwed with his confidence. I recall reading that Pippen and some of the others gave him crap when he came on, especially about his defense.
As someone that watched >75% of Kukocs games with the Bulls....my opinion is that after Jordan and Pippen left his FG% dropped as defenses ganged up on him. However, as noted earlier he had a distinct euro style that would have been vastly more effective after rules changes opened up the game......which was most of Hedo's era.
In short, Kukoc in the modern era IMO would be hands down ahead of Hedo.
As someone that watched >75% of Kukocs games with the Bulls....my opinion is that after Jordan and Pippen left his FG% dropped as defenses ganged up on him. However, as noted earlier he had a distinct euro style that would have been vastly more effective after rules changes opened up the game......which was most of Hedo's era.
In short, Kukoc in the modern era IMO would be hands down ahead of Hedo.
Yeah exactly right--I had to look it up, but MJ's last year was 97-98, and that was precisely when Kukoc's FG% slide really started. It is weird that his 2nd year in the league was his best fg% year, and he declined after that, but not really that much until MJ left.
I thought the career 5.1 assists per 36 was pretty impressive for a guy 6'10" I wonder if there are any other 6'10" guys who can match that. I don't know of any.
Yeah exactly right--I had to look it up, but MJ's last year was 97-98, and that was precisely when Kukoc's FG% slide really started. It is weird that his 2nd year in the league was his best fg% year, and he declined after that, but not really that much until MJ left.
I thought the career 5.1 assists per 36 was pretty impressive for a guy 6'10" I wonder if there are any other 6'10" guys who can match that. I don't know of any.
Kukoc could absolutely play PG in the league and was an excellent passer. He could also drive the hoop pretty well but in that era they'd just handcheck and push him which would now be illegal.
Clearly if MJ is on the court with you....you are going to get more open shots etc.
I know Kukoc got a bad rap for not being "tough" or whatnot but frankly I think a lot of that stemmed from Pippen and Jordan treating him like a whipping boy because they were pissed about pippens low $$$ contract and that Kukoc was making more.
As big of a dick as Jordan could be I think they'd have run a less mentally tough player out of town so I give him credit there. I lived in Chicago during those years and read all of Lacy Banks columns (and others) during my commutes so a lot of the news that didn't go national (like when Jordan punched Kerr in the face during practice lol) was in the local sports pages.
I think if you dropped Kukoc in the league right now in his prime he'd be a 23-7-7 guy.
I lived in Chicago during those years and read all of Lacy Banks columns (and others) during my commutes so a lot of the news that didn't go national (like when Jordan punched Kerr in the face during practice lol) was in the local sports pages.
Can you imagine that happening now if Lebron punched a teammate in the face?
There would be a gigantic Richie Incognito-style uproar with 24/7 coverage and investigations into NBA locker room culture.
Can you imagine that happening now if Lebron punched a teammate in the face?
There would be a gigantic Richie Incognito-style uproar with 24/7 coverage and investigations into NBA locker room culture.
Yeah, they kept it pretty quiet though. I forget exactly what Kerr claimed....I think he said he caught an accidental elbow.
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