Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Highlights are highlights. Rubio, Rondo, good players, but if you think they can even touch how great of a player Magic was, you're going to need more evidence than just youtube "highlights". Magic could pass, rebound, steal, score, and unlike Rondo, he could actually make free throws.
Magic is a great champion. I'm not sure what crack you're smoking. Rubio is up and coming, and while he has a chance to be real good, what he or Rondo has done up to this point, and their skill level up to this point is not even up to par with Magic Johnson's rookie season.
I never said a word about Magic's all around skill. He is absolutely the better all around player thanks to his size. He's not better at passing though and thats what I wanted on my team. I've got plenty of guys that can get the ball into the bucket, don't need Magic's size and post presence. LeBron, Duncan, and Robinson have that covered for me. I want more finesse and speed than Magic can offer.
Michael Jordan couldn't shut "easily" shut down Reggie Miller. He couldn't shut him down at all...that's why he never did.
Reggie played 49 games against Jordan and averaged 19.1 points per game on 46.7% shooting. His career average is 19.1 points per game on 47.1% shooting.
Guys like Reggie Miller, Ray Allen, and Rip Hamilton couldn't be shut down by anyone. Kevin Durant even more so because he's so long. They have too quick of a release, they're too good at running off screens, and they're always moving. They have an effect on an offense that's greater than their stats. They don't need the ball in their hands to be effective (one of the most underrated abilities in the NBA), they force teams to switch and create mismatches, they stretch the floor, and they wear out the opposing 2-guard so they're not as effective on offense.
I'd add Dirk to this list, damn that one legged fade-away. Almost took him instead of Duncan on my roster.
I'd add Dirk to this list, damn that one legged fade-away. Almost took him instead of Duncan on my roster.
Dirk was pretty much unstoppable after he developed his back to the basket game. He caused so many problems for teams on offense, the defense had to focus so much attention on him that the rest of the team just rained in open 3s every game. He won with probably the worst supporting cast in recent memory. I always thought him playing alongside Shaq would be completely unstoppable but I usually leave him off teams like this because he's an average defender and because the teams already have plenty of shooting.
Highlights are highlights. Rubio, Rondo, good players, but if you think they can even touch how great of a player Magic was, you're going to need more evidence than just youtube "highlights". Magic could pass, rebound, steal, score, and unlike Rondo, he could actually make free throws.
Magic is a great champion. I'm not sure what crack you're smoking. Rubio is up and coming, and while he has a chance to be real good, what he or Rondo has done up to this point, and their skill level up to this point is not even up to par with Magic Johnson's rookie season.
Yes, MJ and Pip can defend Ray allen and Reggie. They can also defend Chris Paul. The only person worth noting in the same breath as yesteryear's players, without you getting laughed at, is Lebron, simply because of his all-around game and physical strength. Rondo, Rubio? Chris Paul? LOL.
Exactly , I'm not sue if these guys are to young to have seen Magic in person, but watching guys like Rubio or Payton and even Kidd when he came in the league, they're like Magic Johnson starter kits. Magic had flashy and accurate passing, averaged more assists than any of those guys, better offensively, rebounding, and his will to win was unlike anyone in this discussion. All of those guys have major flaws in their games, Magic had none. And of those skills, Magics leadership and passing was his strongest point. It's no contest.
Michael Jordan couldn't "easily" shut down Reggie Miller. He couldn't shut him down at all...that's why he never did.
Reggie played 49 games against Jordan and averaged 19.1 points per game on 46.7% shooting. His career average is 19.1 points per game on 47.1% shooting.
Kobe even said once that Reggie was his toughest matchup, and that's taking into account that Kobe would have faced an 'older' version of him. It's the constant movement( we talk about athleticism in terms of speed,jumping and all that, Reggie in terms of durability was freakish) that you have to keep up with, the range out to the parking lot, the quick release. That's why he was a quality starter right up till age 40 and Ray Allen is pretty much going down the same path of being a valuable player closing in on 40 himself.
Reggie could have scored even more than he did but he wasn't one to put up 25 shots a game over a season.
Kobe even said once that Reggie was his toughest matchup, and that's taking into account that Kobe would have faced an 'older' version of him. It's the constant movement( we talk about athleticism in terms of speed,jumping and all that, Reggie in terms of durability was freakish) that you have to keep up with, the range out to the parking lot, the quick release. That's why he was a quality starter right up till age 40 and Ray Allen is pretty much going down the same path of being a valuable player closing in on 40 himself.
Reggie could have scored even more than he did but he wasn't one to put up 25 shots a game over a season.
Yeah chasing these guys around for ~40 minutes is a nightmare. Let up for literally 1 second, or get caught behind a screen and they can drain a shot in your face. They can easily knock down shots in the time it takes you to fight through a screen and if you switch on screens it creates match up problems. It's much easier to defend an isolation guy like Carmelo Anthony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008
I do not know how Ray Allen, Dirk,Iverson,Nash and last but not least Ricky Rubio can end up on this list.
I completely agree with Ricky Rubio and Iverson. Rubio is young and unproven, Iverson is a team cancer. Dirk, Ray Allen and to a lesser extent Nash (because of defense) I don't agree at all. Those guys are extremely good team players who could fit perfectly on a super team.
People look at these teams like you should pick the best player at each position but that's not how you build the best basketball team. A team is more than the sum of the individual parts. Just look at our Olympics team from 2004 with Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Lamar Odom, etc. That was just a collection of great players, not a team that made any sense. It was mostly slashers and isolation guys and no shooting, and they lost to Puerto Rico, Greece, and Argentina. Teams that had shooting and moved without the ball. Puerto Rico and Greece had barely any NBA-level players but they had players that fit well together and filled rolls.
Or look at the 2004 Pistons. If I remember correctly their only all-star was Ben Wallace, and they dominated a team with Shaq, Kobe, Malone, and Payton. Lindsay Hunter averaged 3.5 ppg off the bench for the Pistons that year but he harassed the everliving hell out of other teams' point guards bringing the ball up the court and made it hard for them to even get into their offense.
Defense wins championships and there's only one basketball, so when I look at these teams I don't try to pick the best player at each position, I think
Who is going to handle the ball and who is going to play off the ball?
What is the team defense and rebounding going to look like?
Who is going to stretch the floor and give the post players and penetrators space to work?
Who is going to pressure the ball?
How is the team going to fit together?
Who is going to draw double teams in the post and find the open guy?
Who is going to penetrate, draw the defense, and find the open guy?
Who are the spot up shooters who are going to knock down the open shots?
No one would argue that Mike Miller is better than Dwyane Wade, but last year in the finals when Mike Miller was in the game and Wade was on the bench Lebron was a whole lot more effective because Miller stretched the floor and gave Lebron room to operate.
Kobe even said once that Reggie was his toughest matchup, and that's taking into account that Kobe would have faced an 'older' version of him. It's the constant movement( we talk about athleticism in terms of speed,jumping and all that, Reggie in terms of durability was freakish) that you have to keep up with, the range out to the parking lot, the quick release. That's why he was a quality starter right up till age 40 and Ray Allen is pretty much going down the same path of being a valuable player closing in on 40 himself.
Reggie could have scored even more than he did but he wasn't one to put up 25 shots a game over a season.
Yeah chasing these guys around for ~40 minutes is a nightmare. Let up for literally 1 second, or get caught behind a screen and they can drain a shot in your face. They can easily knock down shots in the time it takes you to fight through a screen and if you switch on screens it creates match up problems. It's much easier to defend an isolation guy like Carmelo Anthony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm2008
I do not know how Ray Allen, Dirk,Iverson,Nash and last but not least Ricky Rubio can end up on this list.
I completely agree with Ricky Rubio and Iverson. Dirk, Ray Allen and to a lesser extent Nash (because of defense) I don't agree at all. Those guys are extremely good team players who could fit perfectly on a super team.
People look at these teams like you should pick the best player at each position but that's not how you build the best basketball team. A team is more than the sum of the individual parts. Just look at our Olympics team from 2004 with Allen Iverson, Stephon Marbury, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Lamar Odom, etc. That was just a collection of great players, not a team that made any sense. It was mostly slashers and isolation guys and no shooting, and they lost to Puerto Rico, Greece, and Argentina. Teams that had shooting and moved without the ball. Puerto Rico and Greece had barely any NBA-level players but they had players that fit well together and filled rolls.
Or look at the 2004 Pistons. If I remember correctly their only all-star was Ben Wallace, and they dominated a team with Shaq, Kobe, Malone, and Payton. Lindsay Hunter averaged 3.5 ppg off the bench for the Pistons that year but he harassed the everliving hell out of other teams' point guards bringing the ball up the court and made it hard for them to even get into their offense.
Defense wins championships and there's only one basketball. When I look at these teams I don't try to pick the best player at each position, I think
Who is going to handle the ball and who is going to play off the ball?
What is the team defense and rebounding going to look like?
Who is going to stretch the floor?
Who is going to pressure the ball?
How is the team going to fit together?
Who is going to draw double teams in the post and find the open guy?
Who is going to penetrate, draw the defense, and find the open guy?
Who are the spot up shooters who are going to knock down the open shots?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
