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For fiscal 2016, Jordan Brand revenue grew 18% to $2.8 billion. Nike Basketball segment had revenues of $1.4 billion. (Nike Basketball includes Lebron, Kobe, etc)
How could Kobe get out the first round if Gasol wasn't there yet ? He had a team full of D league talent from 05 -07
And what did Gasol do before joining Kobe ?
How many rings did Lebron win without his Big 3 teams ?
In order to surpass Jordan is simple.Win 7 rings with no final losses.
Kobe and Duncan got the closest so far but still loss in the finals before.No excuses !
Jordan is the undisputed GOAT
Magic is #2
Kareem is #3
Russell is #4
To me Shaq / Kobe make #5 in a toss up
Wilt #6
Bird #7
Duncan #8
Lebron #9
Hakeem #10
Lebron had a team full of D-league talent and got to the 2nd and 3rd rounds. No one said Gasol is the GOAT. People said Kobe couldn't get anywhere without help. Lebron could. There's no way around this. I don't see how Lebron jumping ship is any different from Kobe having the help brought to him (and threatening to jump ship if that didn't happen). Both won with help. Neither won it all without help, though Lebron got closer.
Lebron had a team full of D-league talent and got to the 2nd and 3rd rounds. No one said Gasol is the GOAT. People said Kobe couldn't get anywhere without help. Lebron could. There's no way around this. I don't see how Lebron jumping ship is any different from Kobe having the help brought to him (and threatening to jump ship if that didn't happen). Both won with help. Neither won it all without help, though Lebron got closer.
All of this has to balanced against the fact LeBron has played in a much weaker conference. The various incarnations of the Spurs, the current Warriors, the KD/ Westbrook (and Harden) Thunder, Prime Dirk's Mavs teams, the Carmelo/Billips Nuggets, Nash's Suns, all of these teams have been factors in the West over the last decade. In 2010 (Kobe and Pau's title defense year) the 8th seed in the West won 50 games.
Point is competition matters. And LeBron has seen comparatively less due to being in the Eastern Conference.
How has he cleared Duncan ? Duncan beat him 2 times in the finals and clearly gave the 2013 title away but that's not up for debate
He's clearly above Kobe ?
Kobe is the closest player offensively to the man we all know as Jordan ( GOAT ) He's out played and beat everyone in his generation from Iverson to Duncan,Garnett to Mcgrady and even took on the Lebron & Wade generation where everyone from KD to Kyrie irving looks up to Kobe as the Mj of this era today.
Well, your username says it all. Kobe is not in the pantheon where Lebron will reside. Kobe & Wade are closer than Kobe & Lebron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25
Kobe was the best player or at least top 3 from 01 - 12
O6 - 10 he was clearly the best and was robbed of at least 3 Mvps in his career.
Around 2011/12 the Lakers are running out of gas and trade for Chris Paul ! But for the first time in league history owners go bananas and stern blocks the trade
He fights till the end but suffers a serious injury - the rest is history and all we can do is appreciate greatness and think about what could have been if Kobe & Cp3 was allowed to play together.1 more ring is a strong possibility.
I would not consider Kobe a top 3 player in any season from 01-12. His best years were the years when Shaq was the best player on his team. It was messed up that the league killed the CP3 trade. Chris Paul would have been the best player on that team. '06-'10? Nash, Nowitzski, Garnett, Lebron . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25
Now Lebron goes to team up and do his Super team thing where on paper the Heat are supposed to win every final they're playing in based on talent alone.
They choke to Dallas in 2011 and than beat up a young thunder team in 2012
Like i said the Spurs gave 2013 away and they proved that by coming back the next year in 2014 to smash Lebron and the heat.So when did he surpass Kobe & Duncan ?
Some fans say Lebron was the best in 2008 lol
Those Heat were great when they had the health and youth to play lights out defense and get out in transition. Dallas was very good, and those Spurs were great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kobe25
2015 finals we'll never know the outcome had Kyrie and Love played.
2016 finals is so full of controversy that it's not even worth the argument.
The winner of the 2017 finals will finally prove who really deserved the 15 & 16 titles.
Is Lebron great ? Hell yeah but playing in the weak east on Super Teams formed to chase rings for the past 7 years is trash.
So for those reasons Kobe & Duncan are better
Duncan and Kobe are a few rungs down the ladder from Lebron's achievements--win or lose this title.
I don't really see Duncan being anything lesser than Lebron. Duncan has 5 titles and anchored the best team in the NBA for 20 years. Head-to-head, Duncan's teams were 2-1 against Lebron (VERY close to 3-0). Put Duncan's Spurs in the east and I bet they win 7 or 8 titles (basically in the finals every year).
This decade, the power in the East touched Boston, Chicago, and Indiana--all teams that looked like contenders, and in those years were treated as such. I don't know why people still want to diminish LeBron's accomplishments...
The Bulls had the best record in the league in back to back years, had an MVP, and a Top 3 coach. The Pacers had the best record in the East two years in a row. The Celtics won a chip at the end of last decade, eliminated LeBron from the playoffs at the beginning of this decade, and were still contenders for two years after that. None of these teams won a championship this decade because of the greatness of LeBron James...
2011: he eliminated a 56-win Celtics team and 62-win Bulls...
2012: eliminated essentially a 52-win Pacers team and ended the Boston "Big 3" era...
2014: put the 56-win Pacers out of their misery for the third straight year, ending a stretch they were legitimate contenders...
2015: ended the most successful Bulls era in a decade and a half by knocking off the 50-win Bulls once again, then whipped a 60-win Hawks team that was considered a contender that year...
2016: beat the best Raptors team in franchise history that won 56-games...
LeBron has had plenty of Eastern Conference competition during his decade of dominance. He hasn't beaten a 50-win team each round, is that what guys put him down for? Hell, nobody beats 50-win teams each round, every year. The fact of the matter is that the biggest challengers for him (the Celtics, Bulls, Pacers) all went to a combined one Finals this decade and those three franchises are a combined 1-10 versus LeBron in playoff series this decade-----with the only win (and only Finals appearance) coming in the very first year of the decade, before he became this good...
It's not hard to imagine that were it not for LeBron James, those three franchises have at least two championships between them, and probably 4+ Finals appearances. Those have been the three best East teams of this decade that weren't a LeBron James team. To say he's played in the lesser conference is accurate. To say he's had a "cakewalk" to his achievements is not accurate and reeks of bias and hate...
Competition matters. LeBron James is just that good that the best competition around him looks inferior. This is nothing to mention that even if you feel he's had an easy route to The Finals, he's 3-3 this decade with losses and victories over the Warriors and Spurs. Ain't no shame in having series losses to those teams...
Jordan finished his Year 14 in 01-02, his first year with the Wizards. Granted, he was six years older than LeBron, but I'm not about to penalize LeBron because Jordan decided to retire and un-retire twice. LeBron is finishing up his Year 14 now. Apples to apples, heres how both compare after Year 14:
Regular Season
Win Shares--Jordan 214, James 205.4
Traditional Statline (pts/reb/ast/stl/blk)--
Jordan 30.1/6.1/5.2/2.4/0.8
James 27.1/7.3/7.0/1.6/0.8
FG% (Total/3p/2p/FT)--
James .501/.342/.543/.740
Jordan .501/.330/.514/.836
eFG%--James .536, Jordan .513
PER--Jordan 28.5, James 27.6
TS%--James .584, Jordan .575
Playoffs
W/S--James 43.7, Jordan 39.8
T/S--James 28.2/8.8/6.8/1.8/1.0
Jordan 33.4/6.4/5.7/2.1/0.9
FG%--Jordan .487/.332/.504/.828
James .481/.328/.524/.745
eFG%--James .517, Jordan .503
PER--Jordan 28.6, James 27.8
T/S%--James .571, Jordan .568
These numbers are eerily similar. The separation comes in accolades: Jordan has three more rings and no Finals losses; Jordan has one more MVP and one more MVP runner-up; Jordan has a DPOY; Jordan has one more All-Star selection and one more ASG MVPs. But James does have more Finals appearances; a better record in the ECF (7-1 to Jordan's 6-2); more All-NBA and more 1st Team NBA selections...
In all likelihood, Lebron will never get another MVP or catch Jordan's 6 rings. Doesn't change the fact that he's knocking at Jordan's door for the #1 GOAT.
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