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Again, I’m not arguing the Jordan isn’t the goat. I think he is one of four acceptable answers for GOAT, but the two three-peats that are often used to elevate him above his peers (yes, Wilt, Kareem and LeBron are his peers) wouldn’t have happened in any other era.
Again, I’m not arguing the Jordan isn’t the goat. I think he is one of four acceptable answers for GOAT, but the two three-peats that are often used to elevate him above his peers (yes, Wilt, Kareem and LeBron are his peers) wouldn’t have happened in any other era.
Baseless argument. Prove he doesn’t 3 peat twice leading a good team in another era. Once again...excuses will be made for why player X doesn’t achieve what Jordan did.
Baseless argument. Prove he doesn’t 3 peat twice leading a good team in another era. Once again...excuses will be made for why player X doesn’t achieve what Jordan did.
That second three-peat team was more stacked than any Shaq-Kobe Lakers team, and faced lesser competition. A 55 win team added swapped Horace Grant for Dennis Rodman and added Michael Jordan and Ron Harper (20/6/5). Team with unfathomably stacked. Only a handful of Bill Russell Celtics teams, the showtime Lakers and current Warriors can even compare.
That second three-peat team was more stacked than any Shaq-Kobe Lakers team, and faced lesser competition. A 55 win team added swapped Horace Grant for Dennis Rodman and added Michael Jordan and Ron Harper (20/6/5). Team with unfathomably stacked. Only a handful of Bill Russell Celtics teams, the showtime Lakers and current Warriors can even compare.
Enter excuse making with the “stacked team” argument.
Not sure why GS is getting drug into the GOAT debate. They have at least 2 (if not 4) future HOFers on the squad but none of them are realistic in terms of being in a GOAT discussion.
There are guys that have played at GOAT levels in their career but haven't had the duration and consistency.
Lebron has been the best player since Jordan.
People can cherry pick criteria that they like and discard what they don't but that is a simple fact.
I figure if you're the best player in a 15 year (give or take) era of the NBA you deserve consideration since it's so difficult to compare across eras, quality of teammates, opposition etc.
I don't have a problem with Lebron being in the conversation. He's clearly the starting SF on the all-time NBA team.
yet teams rising out the western conference had no problem with him.
Maybe you want to review the last six years. The West is only .500 versus Lebron in his last 6 Finals (3-3), with a 19-16 overall record versus Lebron. That doesn't seem like a conference that has "had no problem" to me. Two of his victories and two of his losses in that stretch were to Spurs and Warriors dynasties. Maybe you were asleep when the West hasn't been steamrolling Lebron every year...
Maybe you want to review the last six years. The West is only .500 versus Lebron in his last 6 Finals (3-3), with a 19-16 overall record versus Lebron. That doesn't seem like a conference that has "had no problem" to me. Two of his victories and two of his losses in that stretch were to Spurs and Warriors dynasties. Maybe you were asleep when the West hasn't been steamrolling Lebron every year...
3-5...MJ 6/6. It is what it is.
Btw - .500 against the west vs 1.000 vs the east. I’d say he suggested far more against the best from the west.
Lebron needs championships...like now. He’ll be 34.5 yr old going into next year’s finals.
I slightly misstated earlier what writer Sam Walker said about the Russell-era Celtics. He never said that they were 'starless,' but that
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Walker
the [Russell-era] Celtics never had any individual member whose isolated performance ranked among the best in history. No Celtics player led the NBA in scoring during its string of titles. In seven of its eleven championship seasons, it didn't place a single scorer in the top ten.
One of the hypotheses of what makes a super-team is that they have to have a super-talent player. Walker found that not to be true.
Another thing Walker notes about Bill Russell is that while he only averaged 15 points/game over his career, he was #1 in career 'Defensive win shares,' and by a wide margin. Russell at 133.64 is 23 percent higher than #2, Tim Duncan at 106.34.
Another thing Walker notes about Bill Russell is that while he only averaged 15 points/game over his career, he was #1 in career 'Defensive win shares,' and by a wide margin (23 percent higher than #2, Tim Duncan.
Interestingly, the Russell-era Celtics and Duncan-era Spurs are the only 2 NBA teams to make Walker's list of 16 most elite sports teams in history.
The gap between Russell’s defense and anyone else in the league is why he’s often considered the GOAT defensive player. It’s kinda unthinkable for a top player in today’s league to get that distinction without averaging 25 ppg+. But is it possible that a top 5 player all time could actually average 15 ppg while making up for the lack of scoring in other areas?
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