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Old 06-09-2015, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,590 posts, read 3,976,619 times
Reputation: 9582

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I'd like to know how they plan to run a college with 1000-2000 students when they're paying $30,000 a month to the owner of that pumice mine.

That is a HUGE expense to have to deal with right off the bat.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:03 AM
 
2,531 posts, read 3,142,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snownut View Post
The irony in all of this fight is the rapid population growth projected in Bend over the next 15 years will have far more impact on traffic and infrastructure than a University that will take decades to grow to anything more than a drop in the bucket population and car wise.
With the enrollment growth at both OSU and UO I'd guess that OSU Cascades would be able to hit capacity much quicker than "decades". And that's without factoring in the recruiting boost they get from the popularity of a Bend campus.

Bend already has traffic issues due to growth. The problem with the proposed OSU westside location is that it funnels a huge number of college students into a very congested location that lacks the infrastructure to handle the traffic and the parking. I think it was the OSU President that stated OSU Cascades could reach 8,000 to 10,000 students which is roughly double the 5,000 number the OSU PR team has been using. Either way it's a huge number of cars that would be driving mainly from the NE side of town to a westside OSU campus because there is no housing for 5,000 to 10,000 students on the westside, and the very small amount of housing available is too expensive for college students.

I'm not buying the overly optimistic theory that a significant number of students will ride a bike or take a bus because there is limited on campus parking. All one needs to do is look to Corvallis and Eugene to see that the students will drive and park in the surrounding community causing even more congestion and conflict.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Side View Post
Furthermore, if OSU doesn't build out that land someone else will. The proposed UGB expansion has been published. It's not bringing in much land on the West side. This will keep West side land desirable and expensive. Making development much more likely of any bare West side land.
I can't think of anything that would be developed on that site that would cause anywhere near the cross town traffic, parking issues, and neighborhood conflict that comes with a college campus of that size. Plus, OSU can use tax dollars to subsidize remediation of the pumice pit and the landfill even though the remediation doesn't make economic sense when alternate locations are considered. Private investors don't have that luxury. Why spend millions upon millions of public funds to develop a location which is too small for a 4 year university of that size when it could be used to build out Juniper Ridge, a location which has more than enough land for the campus, college owned student housing, private student housing, businesses that cater to college students, and businesses that would grow by hiring OSU students?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Side View Post
Because they have to make a profit it will be built to a much higher density than OSU would.
What do you think would be developed that could compare to the density of 5,000 to 10,000 college students plus all the staff needed to run the campus?
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,590 posts, read 3,976,619 times
Reputation: 9582
Despite big education goals, Oregon college enrollment falls - Portland Business Journal

I keep telling you guys, 5000 students for OSU Cascades is a pipe dream. They will never be able to attract that many. The state university system is in overall decline, with only UO and OSU Corvallis growing. I've been in the higher education business for a while - and without dynamic sports programs, attracting students is hard. The football programs are probably the only thing keeping UO and OSU growing. OSU Cascades will be at best somewhat analogous to SOU in Ashland or WOU in Monmouth and they're having trouble attracting students.

2500 students is more realistic.
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:50 PM
 
Location: OR
717 posts, read 1,111,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
Despite big education goals, Oregon college enrollment falls - Portland Business Journal

I keep telling you guys, 5000 students for OSU Cascades is a pipe dream. They will never be able to attract that many. The state university system is in overall decline, with only UO and OSU Corvallis growing. I've been in the higher education business for a while - and without dynamic sports programs, attracting students is hard. The football programs are probably the only thing keeping UO and OSU growing. OSU Cascades will be at best somewhat analogous to SOU in Ashland or WOU in Monmouth and they're having trouble attracting students.

2500 students is more realistic.
Agree with you, and if and when they reach that level Bend will likely have another 20,000 residence... I wonder which will cause more traffic and congestion ???

Also don't expect any any big sports programs here which I think are the prime building blocks for "bigger party issues and crazy traffic jams. Beyond the hot air, words and numbers on a page I can't see any path forward to a rapidly growing University here? If anything the site location sets a path forward for very slow growth? Look forward to watching it all unfold.. I wondering what it will be like in 7 years when my youngest is graduating from High School?

Where Truth In Site is getting their funding? These things can not be cheap... IMO it is one rich group fighting another. The smaller voice has little power in the big picture.
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Old 06-10-2015, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Cascade Lakes Highway / Kapalua
455 posts, read 857,390 times
Reputation: 180
If you look at the names on the LUBA appeal, it's a few Broken Top residents. They are pissing in the wind to continue appealing a ten acre site plan for a permitted use.

If OSU does not ultimately build out all their "optioned" land, it will be built at maximum density that development code allows. I would expect a mix of retail and attached housing.

Even if OSU today said they want to build out all the land it would take at minimum 10 years to get all the approvals (which would require a full master plan with no time clock), funding, and actual building including significant off site improvements.
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:56 PM
 
Location: OR
717 posts, read 1,111,595 times
Reputation: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Side View Post
If you look at the names on the LUBA appeal, it's a few Broken Top residents. They are pissing in the wind to continue appealing a ten acre site plan for a permitted use.

If OSU does not ultimately build out all their "optioned" land, it will be built at maximum density that development code allows. I would expect a mix of retail and attached housing.

Even if OSU today said they want to build out all the land it would take at minimum 10 years to get all the approvals (which would require a full master plan with no time clock), funding, and actual building including significant off site improvements.
Well said... as I keep repeating step back ... big lens... yeah from many points the location is questionable... is this location the crushing blow to Bend and the west side ? I don't think so.. 15 or 20 thousand new residence will be happening way faster than this University...
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:15 PM
 
2,531 posts, read 3,142,891 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
The state university system is in overall decline, with only UO and OSU Corvallis growing.
UO is growing in Eugene and OSU is growing in Corvallis. Bend is arguably more desirable than either city. Will a 4 year OSU campus in Bend be popular with college kids? Let me check. OK, I just asked two UO students if they'd rather go to college in Bend or Corvallis/Eugene, they both picked Bend. Not a surprise. The declining enrollment in the rest of the OR state system is not relevant to this discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
I've been in the higher education business for a while - and without dynamic sports programs, attracting students is hard. The football programs are probably the only thing keeping UO and OSU growing.
I'm surrounded by college kids that attend 4 year campuses and I've never heard one of them say football was considered in the selection process.
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:24 PM
 
2,531 posts, read 3,142,891 times
Reputation: 3569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snownut View Post
Well said... as I keep repeating step back ... big lens... yeah from many points the location is questionable... is this location the crushing blow to Bend and the west side ? I don't think so..
I disagree. It will absolutely be a crushing blow to that area of town. Do some research and you'll find that one of the residents that was a key member working on the OSU committees is against the location because of the negative impact it will cause.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snownut View Post
15 or 20 thousand new residence will be happening way faster than this University...
No one knows if that is true or not, but those new residents will not be converging on a tiny highly concentrated location that is already congested. Its an apples to oranges comparison.
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:36 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
506 posts, read 359,217 times
Reputation: 1211
OSU-Cascades student here.

In my Land Use and Development course this last winter, our instructor had an administrator, who also led public hearings in the past year for the campus, come into our class and talk about the campus expansion. She was informative and knew what she was talking about, but as soon as a student in class brought up very valid questions about why the Eastside of town was barely considered, she shut down immediately, telling the student, "I suggest you do your research before talking about something you don't know anything about." Like??? This is who they have handling the university's image to the public???

To me, this decision to build on the Westside is a complete status and image thing. The school wants the prestige and status of saying the campus is on the Westside, because that's the ~trendy~ side of the city to be on. I'm hopefully pursuing a career in urban planning and development after I graduate next year, so I have had the chance to hear many different views from planners and developers, most of which support development on the Eastside of town...but don't want the university on that side. The university would be an excellent stimulator for the surrounding neighborhood; the influx of young people would prompt businesses to expand or open up similar to what we see on the Westside. It would give the Eastside a chance to fully develop and become just as "cool" as the Westside.

Plus all I hear about OSU-Cascades is how it's a "university for Central Oregon," yet it's being planned as a university for Westside residents. A lot of COCC and OSU-Cascades students are commuters, so we come from Redmond, Madras, Culver, Prineville, etc. Putting the campus in the middle of the city really is only convenient to those living there. Have you commuted into Bend from Redmond at 7:30 in the morning? The traffic going into the city stretches from the light at the intersection of Cooley and 97 past the cemetery. It's a nightmare.

I'll get off my soapbox now. I'm extremely grateful that there's a university option in Bend; I'll graduate next year with SEVEN grand in debt. That's unheard of these days for college. But I don't think the Westside location is a good one. And I don't think 5k students is a lofty goal: young people like me LOVE Bend. I can't imagine the exodus from the Valley that would happen if a 4 year university was established here. Pursue a college degree AND have sunshine in the winter? What a concept.

Last edited by ajams22; 06-12-2015 at 03:45 AM..
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Old 06-13-2015, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,590 posts, read 3,976,619 times
Reputation: 9582
Quote:
UO is growing in Eugene and OSU is growing in Corvallis. Bend is arguably more desirable than either city. Will a 4 year OSU campus in Bend be popular with college kids? Let me check. OK, I just asked two UO students if they'd rather go to college in Bend or Corvallis/Eugene, they both picked Bend. Not a surprise. The declining enrollment in the rest of the OR state system is not relevant to this discussion.
Like I said, those are two out of seven campuses and the only two that are growing. They are both large enough that they've reached a kind of critical mass, there would have to be some sort of drastic series of events to get them to stop growing. The other, smaller universities are shrinking and are projected to for the next 5-7 years.

Quote:
I'm surrounded by college kids that attend 4 year campuses and I've never heard one of them say football was considered in the selection process.
Perhaps not, but the football programs are symbolic of "college life" which Bend does not offer. If you don't have vibrant sports programs - of which football is usually the poster boy - you don't have the kind of "college town" atmosphere people are concerned about. Instead what you have is a "town with a college in it" like Ashland or Bozeman, MT.

I think Southern Oregon University in Ashland provides the best look of what could possibly happen to Bend, except not even that extreme because SOU has 5500 students and Ashland has 21,000 residents - I'd say that the college there is benefit to the town in pretty much every way. I'll note that SOU has seen enrollment declines. OSU-C will be somewhat more science-oriented than SOU but I don't see how it could get much bigger in the short or medium term.

Currently OSU-Cascades only has 18 programs - of which 3 or 4 of them don't look all that great - kind of a mish-mash of classes from their 12-13 programs that look stronger. They reported a Fall 2014 enrollment of 980. I really don't see how they can grow that to 5000 anytime soon, even when they add lower division courses - their current 2015-16 schedule indicates they're planning to have about 500-650 more students than they currently do when they ramp up 100 and 200 level courses. The only way they could grow is if OSU in Corvallis purposely funnels students to Bend.

Quote:
but as soon as a student in class brought up very valid questions about why the Eastside of town was barely considered, she shut down immediately, telling the student, "I suggest you do your research before talking about something you don't know anything about." Like??? This is who they have handling the university's image to the public???
That encapsulates what's wrong with OSU-C's leadership. I've noticed that about them more than once.

Quote:
The traffic going into the city stretches from the light at the intersection of Cooley and 97 past the cemetery. It's a nightmare.
Agreed and that will only get worse with housing/rent prices - and driven by regular growth, not the college. The parkway will eventually have to be elevated in that area someday in the medium term.

Quote:
I'm extremely grateful that there's a university option in Bend; I'll graduate next year with SEVEN grand in debt. That's unheard of these days for college. But I don't think the Westside location is a good one. And I don't think 5k students is a lofty goal: young people like me LOVE Bend. I can't imagine the exodus from the Valley that would happen if a 4 year university was established here. Pursue a college degree AND have sunshine in the winter? What a concept.
I agree that Central Oregon needs a 4-year university quite badly and also don't understand the obsession Cascades leadership has with that west side location. Everyone from the Bend Bulletin to average citizens has said the east side is more appropriate.

However, while it sounds good as a concept - small to medium sized colleges across the country are dealing with significant financial difficulties right now and probably will be in great difficulty until the mid-2020s when enrollment is projected to pick up again.
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