Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I would be very interested to know what you mean by your "inner californian" koakine.. as well as the "lifetime of habits and mindset" the OP referred to as a problem adjusting to the island.
It is very different living here. It is not "America" like other mainland states. Perhaps Alaska is similar? I don't know, I have never been there. There are serious issues that I have trouble with like the inept government in general, but mostly I have been able to adapt and we are very happy here. I feel safe here. I have so many friends of all different kinds it's hard to even list them all! But if you think you're just moving to another state in the Union, you will be disappointed. I dread needing specialized medical care; that is my biggest worry. Hopefully I will not need that for a long time because truly, it would be hard to leave even for that reason.
It seems trite when you hear "you're either meant for this island, or you're not" but I think it is true.
What exactly is troubling you, OP? Slowing down was my challenge.
It's really hard for me to get on here and rant about the things I don't like here without sounding really judgmental and condescending towards the residents of Hawaii... so I apologize in advance to any that I might offend.
Hawaii is a beautiful place, but it definitely is like a different country.
I fell in love with the Natural beauty, but have rarely had time to enjoy it due to the inability to get the most basic things done. This is caused by the "Hawaiian" time epidemic. Things get done 'whenever'. Period.
I also feel that most non-haole Hawaiians will never accept you here. They will tolerate you here and even take your tourist dollars. But that's it.
You will meet some wonderful and caring people here, but they will likely be others that have come from the mainland just like you. Everyone is part of a Clique and it feels really hard to bridge those gaps.
This creates a feeling of division that alot of people are labeling as racism.
I don't think they care so much about the color of your skin. You're just an outsider. Period. and therefore not eligible to become a member of the club. lol
It's similar to the gaijin thing in Japan. You can live in Japan for 20 years, even be born there... but you will never be japanese.
I do not want or expect any of this to change. It is what it is. I just really want to feel welcome and at home in my home. Not have to make up excuses to convince myself that it's ok.
This is just a ME thing and just my $.02. I just want/demand a little more than that.
This creates a feeling of division that alot of people are labeling as racism.
I don't think they care so much about the color of your skin. You're just an outsider. Period. and therefore not eligible to become a member of the club. lol
THIS is totally correct. And I find this sort of thing, this 'us and them' in so many ways in this world. When traveling, people ask you how long you've been on the road. "Oh, we've only got 6 weeks- we're still in college." would get sneers from those who are on round-the-world tickets, as they'd sniff "OH. So you're on HOLIDAY. We're TRAVELING for 2 years."
In Alaska (sorry! I'm from there, it's all I got!) people are really snarky about how long you've been there, if you've been for a winter, etc. Like you have to PROVE yourself, to be 'tough' enough. YOu can NEVER complain about the cold, the lack of shopping choices, the lack of things to 'do'. Once you've been around for awhile, people forget you're actually from Montana
I've been told at barbecues in Puna, "Oh, you've only been here a few months? Let's see if you last. Then maybe I'lll give you the time of day." (not exactly, but you know, so many words...)
But I kind of understand. It's hard when you make fast friends with someone who moves to your community, only for them to move away 3-6 months later when it first hit -45F. It takes a lot of resources to make new friends, and it's hard to lose them. I have found it gets better; after talking about how we're building a home, how we ARE here to stay, people are more accepting.
here is the one thing that i find that i do not really deal with well with and it over the dealing with the county building depts and building permits ..it did not take that long to sail from hawaii to the mainland on a military ship as it take to get the simple answer of building a inground home there and to put into the area a green septic system and solar and wind system ..it did not take that long to build the ports of the world it seams ..
as one person put it who was born there on the big island and he works as a home builder and other little jobs as he can find them to make a liveing ..he calls the building permits dept the black hole of the island.. him and i have been working now for about four months togerther to get the permits to build the style of home i would like to build but it seam that the building permits dept is just sitting there there normal thing it takes time to make sure it will work..
for him and i have been working now for allmost five months ago from comeing to the big island to meet him to have him start the basic of the project there and now as time does go by it looks like it is becomeing a deal breaker to me for the lenght of time to have to deal with a simple problem of getting a building permit ..
but like he says it time to flush some of this people out of the job and get people in there with the understanding that builders are on a time frame and we need to have it done with in a limited amount of time frame not two months or three or four months down the line to get a simple building permit
i mean i can understand it a lifestyle change
i can understand the facts that hey iam going to area where iam not the skin color you see in the area a lot of times..
i deal with people not allways likeing me it just a fact of life your not going to get along with everyone in life ..
i understand the fact it cost more to live there for the simple basic understanding of everything has to be shiped into the island there
i can understand the fact that it takes time to get somethings done in life but a simple yes or no answer should never take more than a couple of months anywhere about getting a building permit
but this getting to be a area where you need to get off the dime and tell me something for it iam now on a deadline and i need to know something..for i have to be able to sale the land i own somewhere else before i retire or stay where iam and enjoy the retirement there ..
here is the one thing that i find that i do not really deal with well with and it over the dealing with the county building depts and building permits ..it did not take that long to sail from hawaii to the mainland on a military ship as it take to get the simple answer of building a inground home there and to put into the area a green septic system and solar and wind system ..it did not take that long to build the ports of the world it seams ..
as one person put it who was born there on the big island and he works as a home builder and other little jobs as he can find them to make a liveing ..he calls the building permits dept the black hole of the island.. him and i have been working now for about four months togerther to get the permits to build the style of home i would like to build but it seam that the building permits dept is just sitting there there normal thing it takes time to make sure it will work..
for him and i have been working now for allmost five months ago from comeing to the big island to meet him to have him start the basic of the project there and now as time does go by it looks like it is becomeing a deal breaker to me for the lenght of time to have to deal with a simple problem of getting a building permit ..
but like he says it time to flush some of this people out of the job and get people in there with the understanding that builders are on a time frame and we need to have it done with in a limited amount of time frame not two months or three or four months down the line to get a simple building permit
i mean i can understand it a lifestyle change
i can understand the facts that hey iam going to area where iam not the skin color you see in the area a lot of times..
i deal with people not allways likeing me it just a fact of life your not going to get along with everyone in life ..
i understand the fact it cost more to live there for the simple basic understanding of everything has to be shiped into the island there
i can understand the fact that it takes time to get somethings done in life but a simple yes or no answer should never take more than a couple of months anywhere about getting a building permit
but this getting to be a area where you need to get off the dime and tell me something for it iam now on a deadline and i need to know something..for i have to be able to sale the land i own somewhere else before i retire or stay where iam and enjoy the retirement there ..
Ii too am considering the move to the BI. It would have to be on the non-windward side, Kona, Kohala etc.,
What area, if any, would people consider to be the mose haole-tolerant? Is Kamuela a good choice? Kailua-Kona? Please advise.
here is the one thing that i find that i do not really deal with well with and it over the dealing with the county building depts and building permits ..it did not take that long to sail from hawaii to the mainland on a military ship as it take to get the simple answer of building a inground home there and to put into the area a green septic system and solar and wind system ..it did not take that long to build the ports of the world it seams ..
as one person put it who was born there on the big island and he works as a home builder and other little jobs as he can find them to make a liveing ..he calls the building permits dept the black hole of the island.. him and i have been working now for about four months togerther to get the permits to build the style of home i would like to build but it seam that the building permits dept is just sitting there there normal thing it takes time to make sure it will work..
for him and i have been working now for allmost five months ago from comeing to the big island to meet him to have him start the basic of the project there and now as time does go by it looks like it is becomeing a deal breaker to me for the lenght of time to have to deal with a simple problem of getting a building permit ..
but like he says it time to flush some of this people out of the job and get people in there with the understanding that builders are on a time frame and we need to have it done with in a limited amount of time frame not two months or three or four months down the line to get a simple building permit
i mean i can understand it a lifestyle change
i can understand the facts that hey iam going to area where iam not the skin color you see in the area a lot of times..
i deal with people not allways likeing me it just a fact of life your not going to get along with everyone in life ..
i understand the fact it cost more to live there for the simple basic understanding of everything has to be shiped into the island there
i can understand the fact that it takes time to get somethings done in life but a simple yes or no answer should never take more than a couple of months anywhere about getting a building permit
but this getting to be a area where you need to get off the dime and tell me something for it iam now on a deadline and i need to know something..for i have to be able to sale the land i own somewhere else before i retire or stay where iam and enjoy the retirement there ..
Henry, the answer from the Building Department is most likely going to be "no" about building an underground house. It just isn't done around here. Pick whatever reason you like, it just isn't done. Basements are really rare, let alone the whole thing underground. Oh, and they won't flat out say "no", either, they will give you more paperwork to fill out and another department to go see. Eventually you will give up and go away without them having to tell you "no". Planning Department is better about a flat "no". If it's not in the zoning, they let you know that you can't build it unless you get a zoning code change or variance.
In order to get a "yes" from the Building Department, there will most likely be about a year's worth of paperwork (possibly more) with multiple engineering stamps and loads of documentation perhaps even a few variances. Of course, this is just merely my opinion, but I've been dealing with the Building Departments in these islands for almost thirty years.
Personally, I'm still mystified as to the "why" of the whole underground thing, too. Generally folks come to Hawaii because of the beauty and weather. If you are going to live in a hole in the ground, wouldn't it be better to do it somewhere you don't have to put up with all the drawbacks of living on an island 2,500 miles away from where most things are shipped from?
It's really hard for me to get on here and rant about the things I don't like here without sounding really judgmental and condescending towards the residents of Hawaii... so I apologize in advance to any that I might offend.
Hawaii is a beautiful place, but it definitely is like a different country.
For all intents and purposes, it is a different country. Just pretend we are not part of the United States when it comes to day-to-day living and you'll not be stressed out by "the way things SHOULD be". Just accept what they are and they won't be and enjoy what is here instead of what isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanTraveler
I fell in love with the Natural beauty, but have rarely had time to enjoy it due to the inability to get the most basic things done. This is caused by the "Hawaiian" time epidemic. Things get done 'whenever'. Period.
I suspect part of the lack of drive to "get things done" is we don't have the winters that the mainland does. There really isn't any particular reason to get things done immediately. We aren't going to freeze to death if we don't. Slowing down is what happens here and one of the major reasons a lot of folks like living here. It would seem to me that moving to Texas and not liking Western things, cowboys and BBQ might be somewhat similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanTraveler
I also feel that most non-haole Hawaiians will never accept you here. They will tolerate you here and even take your tourist dollars. But that's it.
Ah, just a note. "Hawaiians" are an ethnic group. It's a blood thing, not a where they live thing. Folks living in Hawaii are not called Hawaiians unless they have Hawaiian blood. Calling folks Hawaiian when they aren't is a big social faux pas and would be part of the reason folks wouldn't be accepting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanTraveler
You will meet some wonderful and caring people here, but they will likely be others that have come from the mainland just like you. Everyone is part of a Clique and it feels really hard to bridge those gaps.
This creates a feeling of division that alot of people are labeling as racism.
I don't think they care so much about the color of your skin. You're just an outsider. Period. and therefore not eligible to become a member of the club. lol
It's similar to the gaijin thing in Japan. You can live in Japan for 20 years, even be born there... but you will never be japanese.
Exactly! It's the ethnic blood thing again! You have to be born Japanese or born Hawaiian. You also have to be born Swedish, so what's the problem with all this?
Perhaps when North America became a "melting pot" and mixed everyone together they lost the ethnic identity that many countries have. I don't think there's any "United States" bloodline anyone can claim. Technically, we (as citizens born in the United States) can't lay sole claim to be "American" since there's the whole group of folks in South America who are also in that group.
The feeling of division is quite likely true, once you fit in so that feeling is gone, then you will be accepted into the group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuburbanTraveler
I do not want or expect any of this to change. It is what it is. I just really want to feel welcome and at home in my home. Not have to make up excuses to convince myself that it's ok.
This is just a ME thing and just my $.02. I just want/demand a little more than that.
You've only been here for two months. Why should folks reach out and embrace you, accept you socially as part of their group when you aren't? Can I move to Texas and be accepted socially as part of that group within two months? Can I move to Texas and tell folks they are moving too fast and we don't do it like that in Hawaii and be accepted?
For all intents and purposes, it is a different country. Just pretend we are not part of the United States when it comes to day-to-day living and you'll not be stressed out by "the way things SHOULD be". Just accept what they are and they won't be and enjoy what is here instead of what isn't.
I suspect part of the lack of drive to "get things done" is we don't have the winters that the mainland does. There really isn't any particular reason to get things done immediately. We aren't going to freeze to death if we don't. Slowing down is what happens here and one of the major reasons a lot of folks like living here. It would seem to me that moving to Texas and not liking Western things, cowboys and BBQ might be somewhat similar.
Ah, just a note. "Hawaiians" are an ethnic group. It's a blood thing, not a where they live thing. Folks living in Hawaii are not called Hawaiians unless they have Hawaiian blood. Calling folks Hawaiian when they aren't is a big social faux pas and would be part of the reason folks wouldn't be accepting.
Exactly! It's the ethnic blood thing again! You have to be born Japanese or born Hawaiian. You also have to be born Swedish, so what's the problem with all this?
Perhaps when North America became a "melting pot" and mixed everyone together they lost the ethnic identity that many countries have. I don't think there's any "United States" bloodline anyone can claim. Technically, we (as citizens born in the United States) can't lay sole claim to be "American" since there's the whole group of folks in South America who are also in that group.
The feeling of division is quite likely true, once you fit in so that feeling is gone, then you will be accepted into the group.
You've only been here for two months. Why should folks reach out and embrace you, accept you socially as part of their group when you aren't? Can I move to Texas and be accepted socially as part of that group within two months? Can I move to Texas and tell folks they are moving too fast and we don't do it like that in Hawaii and be accepted?
I am at a loss for this whole acceptance thing. I see people here in So Cal, and I neither know nor care where they came from or if they have been here 5 mins or 5 decades. I take people as they come with no "purity check", "been here long enough" check or any other check. Perhaps the Hawaiians are a bit snooty, and be a bit appreciative for their affiliation with the outside world. Heck, they wouldn't even have iron, steel, copper or aluminum without the outside world spoon-feeding it to them. To be honest, I think their attitude is a bit an?l.
I am at a loss for this whole acceptance thing. I see people here in So Cal, and I neither know nor care where they came from or if they have been here 5 mins or 5 decades. I take people as they come with no "purity check", "been here long enough" check or any other check. Perhaps the Hawaiians are a bit snooty, and be a bit appreciative for their affiliation with the outside world. Heck, they wouldn't even have iron, steel, copper or aluminum without the outside world spoon-feeding it to them. To be honest, I think their attitude is a bit an?l.
In a big area wiht lots of people like So Cal you also see poeple you may never see again, all the time. So being open minded doens't hurt you because you probably won't see those poeple again. Take that to a smaller level, like a small town.
Only in this small town, a bunch of people come and go. That sets up the potential of loosing some very close friends, painful no doubt. With that in mind, it's not hard to think that poeple would start to harden their hearts till they knew someone was going to be around for a while.
This is just one way of looking at it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
