Moving to Hilo in Summer 2012 (landlords, wages, living)

[HiloDiver]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

Weren't the stats for Waikiki something like 80% of the folks who sleep there leave within two weeks?

Could we assume that those people were there on vacation?

[HiloDiver]

Interesting from the out migration article:

But the sheer numbers of departing residents do not tell the whole story. Not all departures from Hawaii result from economic hardship.
Many local students leave to attend colleges on the mainland. Seniors are attracted to more affordable retirement locations. Some who leave are not native-born at all, but mainlanders who, after sampling life in Hawaii, return to their homes of origin. For others, leaving home is a consequence of falling in love, or wanderlust. And our transient military population adds to the count of mainland relocations. Population loss is a sensitive social issue, especially with the out-migration of youth and a skilled workforce. Although Americans are notoriously mobile people with an ongoing saga of population movement, a state or county that is aiming for economic stability and Sustainability must address these trends.

[whtviper1]

Here is the original source article that I believe city-data gets its migration demographics from:

Honolulu Star-Bulletin Hawaii News

[HiloDiver]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Here is the original source article that I believe city-data gets its migration demographics from:

Honolulu Star-Bulletin Hawaii News

A good read, thank you. OOPS just noticed the date was 2003, 9 years ago. A lot can happen. For instance, Florida used to have a huge in-migration, as shown in that article, but in the past few years they are having a larger out-migration for a variety of reasons, mostly the economy.

I'm still not seeing anything to support

50% of the newcomers to Hawai'i leave within a year, and 90% within two years.

The in- and out-migration stats aren't showing time of residence before leaving (or did I miss that somewhere?) The sheer numbers are not surprising, what with the economy, but I still wonder where the length of time stat comes from.

I remember when I moved to South Florida in 1980, it was very hard to get a job, because...employers figured everyone would move back to where they came from within a year. I eventually did, however, and had a great 30 years before it became too damn crowded. I think the last straw for me was seeing a Starbucks on Key Largo.

We are now seeing people flee my current island, outmigration hadn't been nearly as big an issue until the huge oil refinery closed a few weeks back, putting a huge percentage of the workforce on the streets. Suddenly, this place has become very lonely as friends move to jobs in other states or countries, or unemployed and back to mom and dad (in their 40's).

Still...I wonder if we will see 90% leave. A surprising number of people say they will stay here no matter what.

[whtviper1]

Did you not read my post about the 90% leave within 2 years?

[HiloDiver]

Originally Posted by whtviper1

Did you not read my post about the 90% leave within 2 years?

Missed it, link please. (Totally swamped day at work today, all under deadline, I just pop in here once in a while to take a breather.)

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by DebbyDiver

Missed it, link please. (Totally swamped day at work today, all under deadline, I just pop in here once in a while to take a breather.)

Jeez, go back to post 37 if you are that interested. Things exist in real life even when there isn't a link.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

If we are calling BS on things (which seems to be a very rude thing to do, but I suppose if it is on things and not people it is less rude?)

It seems a bit harsh, yes, especially from someone who's still very much a malahini... only been on the forum a couple of months, and has yet to actually step foot in Hawai'i.

More than any other place I've ever lived, and I have lived many places, I find there are things about Hawaiian life and culture that are nearly impossible to believe or understand without actually experiencing them in depth first-hand.

One very common story line: I talked story (had a conversation) with a couple in Fern Forest I met regarding some stuff they were selling through a notice on the bulletin board at the Pahoa Natural Foods Market. They had a wonderful little house on a large property, with a fabulous big garden and a clear view of Mauna Kea, a vision of perfection to many, but they were pulling up stakes, and moving back to Northern California. Selling everything they could to try to pay for the move. He was a skilled finish carpenter, she was an experienced massage therapist. He'd only been able to find a little work the last couple of years, she had found less, and after a couple of years of "living in paradise" they were both emotionally exhausted, and wanted to get back close to family and old friends and a culture they understood. And they were stuck trying to rent the house out as they moved, because after months on MLS they'd seen zero interest in anyone buying it.

That's just one of several very common story lines I've heard, over and over.

Another: One of my neighbors came over to the Big Island with wife and 2 kids to work at the park, bought his house at a bubble price, eagerly rotated back to the mainland after two years, and now, two years after their departure, his empty house remains unsold, even with a significantly reduced short-sale price. Ditto the guy a quarter mile down the road, third house over.

Maybe neither of those situations applies to you, but wait, there are plenty more stories to tell...

"Unsolicited advice" is really just the voice of experience talking, folks feeding back the common story lines we all hear... yes, there are people who do go absolutely nuts and move back because of the rain in Hilo... or from the din of the coqui frogs at night... or from being run off a public beach that locals consider "theirs." It's nothing to scoff at. Only time will tell whether it applies to you or not.

There are a lot of things people say here on C-D that can easily seem like BS until you are actually in Hawai'i to experience them for yourself. Like how the community can just gather ranks and shut you out if you're pushy or confrontational or refer to the way things are done somewhere else.

As the great kahuna Steven Covey puts it:

Seek first to understand and then to be understood

[HiloDiver]

Oh yes, viper, I read post 37, but that's your experience where you are. I'm looking for official statistics. Now, if you said that 90% of the people leave your place, I would not be asking for a source. There are places of employment everywhere that have that type of turnover, and your story is not at all surprising.

Heck, for all I know the out-migration rate might be 99% in two years but I'd still love to see the source and see how those statistics are collected. Again, statistics fascinate me.

OpenD, sorry that I sounded so harsh, I think that "tongue in cheek" didn't translate too well, I had a friendly smile on my face as I was typing that. Apologies to everyone for that. If y'all knew me in person, most people think I'm the most humorous person they know and my "BS" would have gotten a round of laughter in person. Oh, the limitations of the written word...

Those sad stories exist everywhere as well, I have friends all over the US, continental and not and territories, who tell me what's going on where they live, the whole nation is a total rat's nest right now. But that would be a topic for a different section.

As for the unsolicited advice, there are people here who seem to be making bets that the rain will drive me off the island within two years (incredibly unlikely given my life history) or that I can't afford to parcel post my own clothing to myself and will be forced to buy used clothing when I arrive (bizarre at best and very, very untrue) and I think that too frequently, there are some very strange assumptions being made.

[OpenD]

Originally Posted by DebbyDiver

OpenD, sorry that I sounded so harsh, I think that "tongue in cheek" didn't translate too well, I had a friendly smile on my face as I was typing that. Apologies to everyone for that. If y'all knew me in person, most people think I'm the most humorous person they know and my "BS" would have gotten a round of laughter in person. Oh, the limitations of the written word...

Agreed. For example you missed the *very obvious* tourist joke that Hotzcatz was making with: "Weren't the stats for Waikiki something like 80% of the folks who sleep there leave within two weeks?"

And that's why we use these emoticons a lot, because the body language and facial expression that carries 90% of human communication bandwidth is missing...

Originally Posted by DebbyDiver

As for the unsolicited advice, there are people here who seem to be making bets that the rain will drive me off the island within two years (incredibly unlikely given my life history) or that I can't afford to parcel post my own clothing to myself and will be forced to buy used clothing when I arrive (bizarre at best and very, very untrue) and I think that too frequently, there are some very strange assumptions being made.

Strange, but common, because so many people coming to the Hawai'i forums with questions are not very well grounded in reality. But I think there's another factor at work here as well... many of the posters don't read carefully, don't comprehend completely, and/or are projecting their own stuff onto your situation. Maybe 20% read only the original post or two and then let fly with their opinion. Maybe 20% read only the last post or two, and then let fly with their opinion. Of the rest, maybe half really understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, so the responses are like a box of chocolates... you really don't know what you're gonna get.

Don't take any of it personally, it's just the nature of the beast. Gather ye nuggets where you find them, and try not to step in the rest.