How much money to save to get few acres in Big Island (real estate, live in)

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by Vaedrem

There are many sources that say we are another "vore" so instead of cherry-picking the science via the internet like you, I will just say this; you get to define you, not me. I've never eaten meat in my life, my blood tests come back clean, my doctor says I'm exceptionally healthy (same with some vegans I know who haven't taken supplements in decades, but I don't know many people, meat-eating or not, who don't take supplements.) So guess what, I am not a "vore" that eats animals and plants. Humans evolved to be opportunistic eaters able to live on almost anything, and to have choice.

It's just like people say that all humans are naturally heterosexual but there are just some deviant, perverted sinners who dare go to against that (and with anthropological philosophy disguised as "science" and a whole bevy of unexamined personal prejudices to back that up to.) But that attitude has changed; many more now accept that it is up the individual to define themselves, not a disinterested majority invested in their own arbitrary cultural practices and just unable understand why anyone else wouldn't want to participate in them. But there is more on the earth than you have dreamed of, so don't try to push your personal definitions on other people.

Did you hear of all the non-vegan babies that died last week? No, I guess their stories couldn't be spun for the tabloids. That's all I'm going to say about that.


The potential issue for a fruitarian diet is the lack of greens and vegetables, but some people that call themselves fruitarians eat other things too.

Laughing my a** off. Arguing with the body and what the body needs is fruitless! AHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

Thanks, I'll be here all week. Tip your waitresses.

[MarketMaker]

My daughter told me about the "paleolithic diet' recently since one of her friends was getting great results -- both cosmetically and on her blood tests. So, I looked into it like any dad would...

The diet strikes me as very sound; however, it also strikes me as little more than a clever repacking of, say, the South Beach diet. The 'paleolithic' approach is primarily a low glycemic approach that avoids 'bad' fats & 'bad' carbs and mixes in high quality fiber & protein (hence, the 'South Beach' reference, but feel free to substitute your favorite variation of such a diet in the narrative).

In my opinion, all the talk about 'evolution', 'Natural Diet', etc. is simply a marketing angle to reach an audience not drawn in by terms like "South Beach". If thinking of food in terms of very pre-industrial revolution terms helps more people eat healthy, then great. I just recommend approaching any industry that profits off of repacking known information into 'hip' books & products with a heavy dose of skepticism.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by MarketMaker

I just recommend approaching any industry that profits off of repacking known information into 'hip' books & products with a heavy dose of skepticism.

Absolutely, 110% dead on correct.

[Kansoku]

Originally Posted by OpenD

Like I said, I trained as a raw food chef and worked in a vegan restaurant, so I'm quite familiar with the claims... as well as the rebuttals. The thing to keep in mind is that Fruitarianism is an unnatural, extreme diet and the rationales for it are all made up. Notice that this web page starts with a lie... that the body runs best on fruit. There is no scientific basis for this claim and no responsible nutritionist would say anything like that. As a matter of fact, the much touted "raw food high" seems to be nothing more than sugar overload. Oh, and here's a little known secret that the raw food community doesn't publicize... it's quite common for long-term juicers and raw foodists to lose their teeth. Seems to be caused by a combination of low Vitamin B-12 levels (which essential nutrient is only available in nature from eating animals or insects) and the fact that our teeth evolved around a diet with almost no sugar in it, so high sugar diets erode teeth rapidly.

Another thing they don't publicize is that only a fraction of the population, perhaps one third, will thrive on such an extreme diet, whereas another third will fail to thrive and eventually will sicken and can even die if their diet is not changed.

Research that was released publically yesterday may finally provide some understanding about why this is so... researchers have found that there are three different body types in the world, as distinguished by the dominent microbes in their digestive systems. Since the microbes in your body do much of the work of digesting food and making the nutrients available to your body, the kind of microbes you have determines which foods you will best be able to utilize.

I waded through all this, over the course of years, in the attempt to support a loved one with extreme allergies and immune-system issues. And I tried it all myself, repeatedly, ultimately finding that my body type was incompatible with vegan diets of every ilk. And that's an underlying truth that almost nobody will tell you... it's really NOT for everyone.

Another is that it is socially isolating. If you set yourself apart from the omnivores, you set yourself apart from a large portion of the human race. And that's something nobody really talks about... the way extreme diets like this isolate you from the mainstream.

Sincerely hoping this will provide some useful thought...

Most raw fooders eat a very high-fat diet (lots of seeds and nuts), which is bad for health in general and also for the teeth.

How to Care For Teeth on a Raw Diet

Nuts and seeds are almost always dried when found in the store, and like dried fruit they can wreak havoc in your mouth by sticking to your teeth. The body generates acid in your mouth to break nut and seed particles down. It's enough to lower your pH balance, and when that happens the enamel of your teeth is in trouble.

[HankDfrmSD]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

no leafy greens? Don't let my grannie hear about that or she'd rise out of her grave and learn how to post things online in forums.

roflmoo!

[McFrostyJ]

This has been a VERY interesting topic to read! I have always just ate what tastes good and makes me feel good. That happens to be about 90% fruits and veggies about 5% nuts, beans etc... and about 5% fish and seafood(just and estimate). Never liked dairy, will eat meat and poultry if I am at someone's house for dinner because I don't want to hurt their feelings, but don't really care for it.
So, how can I improve my diet in order to improve my health for the future? (Thankfully, I haven't had any health problems yet.)

[stephanie park]

If you have it, you need meat (protein). If you don't vegan may suit if you take necessary supplements (B12). 84% Northern European descendants carry the neanderthal gene.

[jeffington]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

No, vegans are not healthy unless they take supplements. Humans evolved eating an omnivorous diet. That's why If it wasn't for the high quality protein in meat and fish, we would never have evolved such brains.

If you look at the actual biology, it becomes really clear that we are omnivores. Our digestive tracts are somewhere between the length of herbivores and carnivores, and most like omnivores like bears and pigs. We have teeth for both tearing flesh and crunching plants. We are even physically capable of digesting raw meat and fish. If humans weren't omnivores, we wouldn't have any desire or ability to eat meat. Ever try to feed meat to a rabbit or goat?

BTW, did you hear about the baby that died a couple weeks ago because the mother ate a vegan diet so her breast milk didn't contain any B12? There are serious risks with forcing your body and brain to survive on a diet it didn't evolve for.

Edit: Here's an article for you. It's fact and science based, not belief based. Humans are Omnivores - Biology Online

By fruitarian, I thought he meant "gay".

[Razzbar]

Originally Posted by Vaedrem

Of course five acres is enough to sustain a single person! You plant an avocado tree for every season, then you start on a big patch of bananas, and you still have enough room for other rich, highly productive fruits like mameys, atemoyas, black sapotes, mangos, jackfruit, durian, coconuts...people do it in Puna (I can't speak for land prices, though.) Sometimes you really have to build up the soil, but it's doable.

Definitely you can grow a TON of food on five acres. I used to have 2 acres, and less than one in any kind of production, and I had avocados, bananas, papayas, etc. etc. etc. etc. coming out of my ears!

The downside is that besides the lack of soil (which is less of a problem than you'd imagine for trees), is that the soil is lacking in nutrients. My experience is that it took about a tablespoon of fertilizer to produce one papaya. If you don't feed your trees, they won't give you much fruit. I kept chickens as much for the fertilizer they gave me as for the eggs. You really, really need to conserve soil and any organic material that you can compost. I never even tried to grow carrots, the soil was so thin. OTOH, I couldn't even kill an avocado tree, they were well suited to the conditions.

Also, it's pretty hard to grow all you need to eat well *anywhere*. Conditions might be optimal for one type of plant, and impossible for another. Forget growing apples, for example.

I had part of my land ripped, hauled in soil, etc. But found that my best trees grew in among the existing trees on areas that I didn't bulldoze.

Most of the parcels in the Puna subs are 2 or 3 acres in size. Two is enough to live on. More important is elevation. The higher you go, the harder it is to grow truly tropical crops, and it gets pretty wet, too.

[Kansoku]

Most of the parcels in the Puna subs are 2 or 3 acres in size. Two is enough to live on. More important is elevation. The higher you go, the harder it is to grow truly tropical crops, and it gets pretty wet, too.

Thank you for your information. How much does the 2 or 3 acres cost?