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When we were on the east side of the BI in February, we booked our little place that was listed on VRBO. We contacted the owner of the house, direct, and paid via PayPal direct to that person. No booking fees. Has that all changed since mid February? If so, that's a shame. I like the option of talking to the owners or their representative in person via email or phone. Far fewer mistakes get made that way, ime.
*sigh* We're going to have to go that route at least once more before we purchase a place on the BI. I hope we don't have to jump through more hoops and pay any more fees than we have to, when the time comes. As it is, the $6K we budgeted for our 2 week stay, there, just barely covered what we wanted to do (and we stayed in a little house, rented a lower-priced rental car that was nicer than any vehicle we own, bought and cooked our own food, and didn't go overboard on souvenir spending. Most of our money was spent on gas, I'd guess, considering we put over a thousand miles on that car while we were there). To pay unnecessary fees to book a place to stay is NOT the way I'd like to spend our vacation dollars if we can avoid it.
While I agree fees need to be clearly disclosed - and fees shouldn't be incurred once a booking has already been made, at the end of the day these companies need to be compensated for the technology investments they made and ongoing marketing as well as other costs.
If another site doesn't have fees, all that is doing is kicking the can down the road so to speak - those firms have decided in the short term they will lose money but someday they will have to recoup it somehow and someway.
If fees are now being levied on the traveler, they probably made a business decision that the owners can't bear all those extra fees and they are spreading them around.
While I agree fees need to be clearly disclosed - and fees shouldn't be incurred once a booking has already been made, at the end of the day these companies need to be compensated for the technology investments they made and ongoing marketing as well as other costs.
If another site doesn't have fees, all that is doing is kicking the can down the road so to speak - those firms have decided in the short term they will lose money but someday they will have to recoup it somehow and someway.
If fees are now being levied on the traveler, they probably made a business decision that the owners can't bear all those extra fees and they are spreading them around.
Umm sorry but this is wrong.
VRBO/Home Away is not a new "tech" company.
I have been using their services since about 2000ish... Home away purchased VRBO around 2005 (ish) maybe later.
They charge the home owners pretty high set of fees to host and the site worked great making money for everyone. What has happened is Expedia has purchased Home Away and wants to make BIG MONEY to move the dial and justify the expense.
Expedia purchased home away in order to gain access to the existing client base and change the model. They don't care if they lose half of clients as long as the get super fat margins they are hoping for.
DO you think Expedia gets 5% when you book a car or flight? They came after VRBO solely because they saw Airbnb getting a fat margin and they thought they could copy it.
What they failed to understand was that VRBO customers are completely different to Airbnb customers.
Expedia has taken a solid long term business that worked neatly for everyone , and subverted it into exactly the type of business the home owners and renters were trying to avoid. The whole reason VRBO/Home Away worked was because they offered a low cost site that helped match renters with owners.
Expenses , costs is just smoke to justiy what they are doing. I feel very confident they will drive customers away in huge numbers.
a $300 booking fee? really? they can go to ehll as far as I am concerned. I do not want to see those home owners having to lower prices to absorb the fee, it is extremely clear to anyone with 0.5 econ credits that untimately owners prices are not based on costs but on what the market will bear. Thus a client willing to spend up to 5K to rent a property will not suddenly be willing to pay $5250. Owners will eithr have to lower prices or accept fewer bookings while inflation does the work.
Before this Homeaway took a single fee to host , Now home under expedia they want a cut of each and every transaction.
So the harder the owner works to promote and sell their product the MORE money they give to Expedia. The model has been subverted to allow expedia to profit from the labor of their clients. The host should profit by offering a service so good that owners are willing to pay more, instead they have turned their clients into their workforce.
Sorry - hard to bring out the tissue for homeowners who have enough wealth to have multiple homes while at the same time crying about fees.
Expedia has the right to make as much money as they can, airlines have the right to make as much money as they can from bag fees, hotels have the right to make as much money as they can from resort fees - it is all about supply and demand, and at least here in Hawaii demand is off the chart.
Sorry - hard to bring out the tissue for homeowners who have enough wealth to have multiple homes while at the same time crying about fees.
I'm not crying about the fee's why should I? Me as a vacation rental owner are NOT the one paying the fee the travelers are. Just thought I would give people notice that there are now booking/service fee's and gave them a few other sites and options to search/book for rentals without charging a fee in addition where they can still contact the owner direct should they wish.
I myself will not use any sites that charge a booking fee when we plan our vacations. No need to really I am a savvy traveler and most vacation rentals have their own private websites. What I do is find the rental I like on one of the other big boy listing sites. See what name the owner gave the property. Most name their homes then simply google the name of the property and 9 times out of 10 google will list all the sites that particular home is listed on. Then find one that you can speak to the owner direct with and without fee's.
We have a vacation rental home East side Hawaii and no we are NOT wealthy by any means we end up with around $300 a month as extra income after expenses, advertising, insurance, utilities, taxes, maintenance, supplies etc. and that's IF we have it booked most of the month which rarely ever happens. So at times especially from May - October usually there is no added extra income from the rental and we break even or sometimes end up in the hole for that month. It is a lot of physical and mental work. We saved up our whole life to be able to purchase it and used most all of our savings. It was supposed to be our supplemental retirement income and trust me it is turning out to be more hassle then it is even worth.
Things may not always be a as rosy for some as they appear to others as the saying goes
"Do not judge a book by its cover"
I like the option of talking to the owners or their representative in person via email or phone. Far fewer mistakes get made that way, ime.
To pay unnecessary fees to book a place to stay is NOT the way I'd like to spend our vacation dollars if we can avoid it.
Irish Eyes: I just sent you a private message. When your ready to look for a vacation rental on the Big Island or anywhere for that matter. Contact me (Private message) I am a member of a network of multiple vacation rental owners and travelers. We have our own traveler referral network between travelers and owners. You can communicate with the owners direct and you will not have any booking or service fees. Additionally these are all safe and legitimate rentals. We are not a business or corporation we are simply a group vacation rental owners that care about our properties and wish to be in direct communication with those who are considering staying in our home. Our network is growing each and every day. We believe in old fashioned "customer service" something the Big Boy sites are trying to take away.
If anyone is interested may also PM me I would be happy to share the information.
We have a vacation rental home East side Hawaii and no we are NOT wealthy by any means we end up with around $300 a month as extra income after expenses, advertising, insurance, utilities, taxes, maintenance, supplies etc. and that's IF we have it booked most of the month which rarely ever happens. So at times especially from May - October usually there is no added extra income from the rental and we break even or sometimes end up in the hole for that month. It is a lot of physical and mental work. We saved up our whole life to be able to purchase it and used most all of our savings. It was supposed to be our supplemental retirement income and trust me it is turning out to be more hassle then it is even worth.
While a better topic for another thread - vacation rental properties and investment properties are generally very different animals which you seem to be experiencing.
Adding to this thread though - I had never heard of Homeaway until this thread - and figured, what the heck - I will check it out.
Seems like a pretty good site. The site lets you contact the owner directly - the fees, about 10% seem reasonable if you want peace of mind of a credit card transaction - you can cancel with 100% refund - or contact the owner and skip fees.
What seems way more outrageous to me as I look at some of the properties is the massive cleaning fee some owners charge - way more than the homeaway fee.
The site lets you contact the owner directly - the fees, about 10% seem reasonable if you want peace of mind of a credit card transaction - you can cancel with 100% refund - or contact the owner and skip fees.
What seems way more outrageous to me as I look at some of the properties is the massive cleaning fee some owners charge - way more than the homeaway fee.
You are not correct on all what you seem to understand on the site you are correct on some.
They are phasing out contacting owner direct trust me our property has been listed with them since 2014 so I know all about what changes are occurring behind the scenes.
There are currently 3 different types of property listings.
1 - "Pay per Booking" This type you have no choice but book direct through the Book IT button and the fee's are automatically added in no way to contact the owner direct. You can contact through a direct message email window but contact information for both parties are not disclosed to either party until AFTER the reservation has been placed. These listings are on what is called the PPB (Pay per book) option both owners and travelers pay a fee at time of booking. 8% of the rental total gets charged to the owner and deducted from rental amount and up to 10% gets added to the travelers rental amount as the service fee. You also have no choice but to use HomeAway/VRBO payments.
2- Subscription with BIN (Book IT Now) Owners pay an annual subscription fee and do not get charged any additional booking fees should a reservation occur. You can contact the owner direct prior to booking contact details are not hidden. You are supposed to check out using the book it button. Travelers occur up to 10% service fee for booking from the site but you can use different payment methods to make payment direct to the owner on the rental portion. This method is by "honesty" no way for VRBO/HA to force completing the reservation through the book it now button BUT owners that do not finish the reservation by using the Book It now process to save the traveler the fees will get "dinged" and your listing will be moved way to the bottom of the stack of hundreds of other listings in the area so almost impossible for anyone to find you. So remember on these types if you ask to book outside the system you are asking the owner to go against policy and they will get penalized. Most owners do offer credit card payment on their own I know we do. Which is just as safe as placing a credit card through VRBO site you still have the same protection of your credit card carrier. We offer guest to pay by credit card, personal checks, pay pal etc. We ask the guest which payment method works best for them.
Both the listings above will have the "Book It" button on the listing.
On the PPB booking ones the only way to contact or ask questions about the property prior is to select the Book It button and then you both owners and travelers have a 24 hour window to decide if you want to make the reservation by communicating within VRBO messaging window during that 24 hour window (contact details for both parties will not be visible to ether party)
On BIN listings there will be both the Book IT button and also there will be where you can contact the owner direct. There will be an option to retrieve the owners phone number and also "send email" listed under the owners name. You can communicate between owner and traveler direct as much as you like there is no 24 hour timer activated. Once you both agree owner agrees you can rent their home and traveler wants to book at this time this is when you are supposed to then click the Book IT button which at that time starts the 24 hour clock. You would pay the service fee to VRBO and depending on what payment method the owner has listed you can make the rental payment in a different manner if you wish. So on these type listings best to NOT click the BOOK IT button until after you have initially contacted the owner first to see if the rental would be a good fit.
3 - Subscription only - Owners pay an annual subscription fee and do not have to offer Book IT (these type are getting phased out and will no longer be offered in the next year) owners will not have the option to renew at this type after July 2016. On these type of listings there will be no "Book It" button the listing will say "View Details" these listings will operate the same way as the old VRBO site used to be before the fee's to travelers were implemented. You can contact owner direct and make payments and reservations outside the site.
You can cancel with 100% refund - Not always true once you click the Book It button you are obligated to complete the reservation and are bound by the cancellation policy of that particular rental not all have the same cancellation policy. If the cancellation policy for that property says you receive a 100% refund after X days then you would receive 100% if the property has a 30 day or 60 day or no refund policy you are bound by that policy. Even if the owners policy says 100% refund VRBO/HA is not going to refund the service fee of 10% and if they do it is a huge hassle being reported from travelers on trying to get the service fee portion refunded.
What seems way more outrageous to me as I look at some of the properties is the massive cleaning fee some owners charge - way more than the homeaway fee. This I tend to agree on some properties do seem to charge an excessive cleaning fee NOT all so please pay close attention to the cleaning fee on any property that you book. I always look at the cleaning fee right away before I even go any further when considering a property. On our property we charge what our cleaning service charges nothing more and nothing less. On some sites we list our property on we raise the nightly rate to include the cleaning fee so that it is inclusive in the nightly rate.
Sites likes AirBnB and TripAdvisor 99% of all listings are using the PPB Pay per booking model. No way to contact owner direct and get away from the booking or service fees. Flipkey on the other hand some listings do not have a service or booking fee. If when viewing properties on Flipkey and you do not want a service fee look for listings that do not have the "Book IT' button but have a "contact" or "Make Inquiry" button.
I hope this information clears up a lot of questions. And remember if anyone wants to book from sites that still allow you to communicate with the owner direct and no listing fee's reference the links in the first post of this thread.
Last edited by 1freespirit; 05-20-2016 at 02:34 PM..
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