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Old 11-09-2013, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Ocala, FL
4,532 posts, read 7,283,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Poor comparison my foot...no pun intended!
When a birds wings are cut, only the feathers are trimmed and not the entire wing, and those feathers will grow back. If your legs are cut off they will not grow back, hence my point.

Does that make more sense ?
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 9,253,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dontaskwhy View Post
When a birds wings are cut, only the feathers are trimmed and not the entire wing, and those feathers will grow back. If your legs are cut off they will not grow back, hence my point.

Does that make more sense ?
You seem to think I don't understand what you are saying. It is a no brainer. However that is not my point. What does it matter that a birds feathers can grow back just to be clipped again to prevent them from flying. Does not make one ounce of difference if they grow back and are continuously clipped to prevent them from flying. So you think that it is ok to clip the wings to prevent them from flying just because the feathers grow back?

Birds are evolutionarily designed to fly...read the article I posted. That is my point. People are designed to use their legs to walk. It is an evolutionary design. Does that make sense now?

We have no right to eliminate an animals primary means for mobility.
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:19 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Ok, so birds have wings for the purpose of flying---outside. Following that logic, it is absolutely wrong to keep birds in a cage or house, as it is not "natural."

Frankly, I'll go with the avian vets on this one--I don't care how safe one's house is. Unless you are letting your bird fly around outside, the house is not a natural habitat.

I don't think anyone can say wing clipping in regard to birds kept in a house is "absolutely wrong."
Yes following that logic it is wrong to keep highly intelligent birds in a cage. It is wrong to continue the bird breeder mentality of breeding birds in captivity and selling them to humans most of which have no clue how to care for highly intelligent birds.

Birds in captivity should be given the right amount of space to live including flying space. My parrot flew from room to room following me where ever I went. I gave him the space he deserved to live a happy healthy life and gave him back his wings. At the bird store they were clipping his wings. It took a lot of practice and endurance building for him to learn how to fly again. I am thankful to have given him back his ability to fly.

You can Google to your hearts content the vicious cycle of birds in captivity that eventually end up at bird rescue sanctuaries because of the abuse and ignorance of the people who purchase them.
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Florida
23,810 posts, read 11,065,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Yes following that logic it is wrong to keep highly intelligent birds in a cage. It is wrong to continue the bird breeder mentality of breeding birds in captivity and selling them to humans most of which have no clue how to care for highly intelligent birds.

Birds in captivity should be given the right amount of space to live including flying space. My parrot flew from room to room following me where ever I went. I gave him the space he deserved to live a happy healthy life and gave him back his wings. At the bird store they were clipping his wings. It took a lot of practice and endurance building for him to learn how to fly again. I am thankful to have given him back his ability to fly.

You can Google to your hearts content the vicious cycle of birds in captivity that eventually end up at bird rescue sanctuaries because of the abuse and ignorance of the people who purchase them.
Yes, and a lot of that abuse is due to accidents in the house or because the bird has escaped, which is due to birds having flight wings unclipped. That can also be googled to your heart's content. This is a very controversial issue and no one person can say whether it is right or wrong.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 9,253,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Yes, and a lot of that abuse is due to accidents in the house or because the bird has escaped, which is due to birds having flight wings unclipped. That can also be googled to your heart's content. This is a very controversial issue and no one person can say whether it is right or wrong.
Sure I have heard those stories but none ever rang true for my experience. People who allow their birds to fly inside a home need to take the necessary precautions and educate their birds as well. I took my parrot to every object in the house that could possible hurt him and allowed him to become familiar with them. A birds owner who spends quality time with the bird and exercise him into top flight strength do not have to worry about the bird hurting itself if they take the proper precautions. My parrot never once hurt himself. Parrots are very intelligent and a naïve bird learns very quickly. So I personally think it is the owners fault if the parrot does not know any better than to fly into a picture frame or a window. It is just like making your house safe for a small child. No difference at all.

People who want a bird really need to educate themselves on the temperament of the bird, the diet, the exercise and stimulation required and then spend tons of time with the bird. Most people run out and purchase a parrot for all the wrong reasons. Thus the enormous amount birds in captivity that sadly get on the merry go round and live in about 12 different homes before they are finally discarded at a bird sanctuary and too damaged to be adopted. It is a terrible vicious cycle that most have no awareness about. Owning a Parrot is a huge responsibility and takes up a lot of your personal time. Most people don't have the amount of time in their daily lives to devote to raising a healthy, happy parrot. This is why bird breeders ought to be outlawed. It is a terrible injustice to parrots.
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Old 01-26-2014, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Illinois
16 posts, read 24,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
I don't know why anyone would feel it is cruel--if the birds are clipped correctly they just glide to the floor, but they can't fly up, and all of the avian vets we have used recommend clipping them precisely to avoid accidents. Before I had birds, my friend had a lovebird and got him clipped and I was upset. But after having birds of my own, I totally understood why they are clipped for their own safety. The other myth is that keeping birds in cages is cruel. Our birds love their cages. I have a lovebird who makes me put him to bed in his cage every night. He stands on his cage and screams until I put him in his cage and close the door. They feel very secure in their cages--probably way more than birds who sleep outside in trees and have to worry about predators. We actually had a budgie who came to our door-- he walked through our open garage to the inside door and just stood there until I went to do laundry and saw him. We had him for 12 years and this is one bird who only wanted to come in and live in a cage--it's a dangerous world outside for small birds!

Yes it is cruel and you are completely wrong..I've seen the depression it causes in birds...




Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Yes following that logic it is wrong to keep highly intelligent birds in a cage. It is wrong to continue the bird breeder mentality of breeding birds in captivity and selling them to humans most of which have no clue how to care for highly intelligent birds.

Birds in captivity should be given the right amount of space to live including flying space. My parrot flew from room to room following me where ever I went. I gave him the space he deserved to live a happy healthy life and gave him back his wings. At the bird store they were clipping his wings. It took a lot of practice and endurance building for him to learn how to fly again. I am thankful to have given him back his ability to fly.

You can Google to your hearts content the vicious cycle of birds in captivity that eventually end up at bird rescue sanctuaries because of the abuse and ignorance of the people who purchase them.
You are right, Breeding of these wonderful Birds should be banned just like the "Puppy Mills"


Quote:
Originally Posted by TVC15 View Post
Sure I have heard those stories but none ever rang true for my experience. People who allow their birds to fly inside a home need to take the necessary precautions and educate their birds as well. I took my parrot to every object in the house that could possible hurt him and allowed him to become familiar with them. A birds owner who spends quality time with the bird and exercise him into top flight strength do not have to worry about the bird hurting itself if they take the proper precautions. My parrot never once hurt himself. Parrots are very intelligent and a naïve bird learns very quickly. So I personally think it is the owners fault if the parrot does not know any better than to fly into a picture frame or a window. It is just like making your house safe for a small child. No difference at all.

People who want a bird really need to educate themselves on the temperament of the bird, the diet, the exercise and stimulation required and then spend tons of time with the bird. Most people run out and purchase a parrot for all the wrong reasons. Thus the enormous amount birds in captivity that sadly get on the merry go round and live in about 12 different homes before they are finally discarded at a bird sanctuary and too damaged to be adopted. It is a terrible vicious cycle that most have no awareness about. Owning a Parrot is a huge responsibility and takes up a lot of your personal time. Most people don't have the amount of time in their daily lives to devote to raising a healthy, happy parrot. This is why bird breeders ought to be outlawed. It is a terrible injustice to parrots.

After having Macaws for 28 years, they should never be taken from their homes and never sold to people that don't have a clue on how to interact with them.
Most Birds are much smarter than the people that buy them and most kids…
If I had my way way, there would be a Dead or Alive on Bird Poachers and there would never be another Bird bought here for the "Pet Trade"
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Old 01-26-2014, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Ocala, FL
4,532 posts, read 7,283,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macaw1us View Post
If I had my way way, there would be a Dead or Alive on Bird Poachers and there would never be another Bird bought here for the "Pet Trade"
I agree that poaching of wild animals is absolutely wrong, but the facts of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of all pet birds are bred domestically and that legal importing of birds ended decades ago (with very few exceptions).

I will respectfully disagree with your wish to stop domestic breeding or clipping of wings though. Clipping of wings is like cutting hair, there is no pain involved and the feathers grow back fairly quickly. There are too many environmental risks (indoor and outdoor) for unclipped birds.

You are entitled to your opinion, but don't try to shove it down mine or anybody's throat. That is just rude and you don't have the right to dictate what is right or wrong.

Last edited by dontaskwhy; 01-26-2014 at 02:47 PM..
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Old 01-27-2014, 12:09 PM
 
Location: North Western NJ
6,591 posts, read 22,724,038 times
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properly clipped wings don't PREVENT flying...they just prevent flying distances/gaining height...
instead of trying to compare it to loosing your ability to walk....becaue again you are NOT removing flight ability instead just limiting it) think of it as not allowing a toddler to play and the stairs...your not removing the ability your RESTRICITNG it...completely different things.

i clipped my macaws wings when his behavior got naughty...hed go through stages where hes start getting teenager...at that point the wings got a clip as a reminder as to whos in charge...
even in full flight, he rarely even tried to fly...he much preferred to walk...or ride the dog.
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Old 01-27-2014, 01:16 PM
 
Location: Ocala, FL
4,532 posts, read 7,283,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxywench View Post
properly clipped wings don't PREVENT flying...
Yes, it can prevent flying. I was in the bird business since the mid '70s and still have two Amazon parrots. I think I know from personal experience. Wings can be cut properly with causing damage or pain to the bird. If I take my bird to the roof of the house, it could glide for only a short distance before gravity kicks in. I have had more than a couple of unclipped birds fly away, never to be seen again.

Do you feel it is cruel to walk a dog an a leash ?? You might not agree with my first comparison, but a dog on a leash would be a better comparison, IMHO.

Last edited by dontaskwhy; 01-27-2014 at 01:42 PM..
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:31 PM
 
621 posts, read 1,210,552 times
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As a new bird owner, I have read a lot on both sides of this issue and can see the pro's and con's on each side.

I purchased my bird and he came clipped. I am undecided if I shall let them grow out or continue to clip them. But right now I am glad he is clipped.

I am sure he would like to fly just as much as my dogs would love me to take down the fence and allow them to run free. If I had an outdoor aviary where he could fly safe.... I would do so in a heartbeat and maybe one day that will happen. My dogs are trained to come back when called, so yes, they get the chance to run free in safe areas.

As I said, good reasons to clip, good reasons to allow flight... it has to fit your lifestyle and the bird too.
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