NPR Story on Birmingham (Carolina, Detroit: crime, unemployment rate, movies)

[birminghamster]

I just heard a story on NPR about the civil rights movement in Birmingham. It's a weeklong series on All Things Considered, and today was about integration of city golf courses. Is this type of publicity, about the discrimination and segregation, good or bad for Birmingham? In other words, is this exposure good because it gets the city national attention, or is it bad because it shines a negative light on Birmingham?

[cpg35223]

I don't think it's a bad thing or a good thing. It just is. I mean it's not like we're going to sweep that stuff under a rug, despite it being a half-century ago.

To me, however, it does pretty tarnish the reputation of the Hansons, who ran the Birmingham News for decades. It was not a true newspaper, but more of a mouthpiece for the establishment, and they weren't above playing a little dirty pool from time to time. Heck, I remember when UAB cut its newspaper advertising budget and the publisher called the UAB president at the time and mentioned how he'd run a hit piece if they didn't scrape up some moolah. UAB evidently did and the hit piece was never published. That's just how they did biz at the News.

[sleepless in Bham]

Its bad because at some point we have to let the past be just that, the past. We have gone through the shame, guilt, revenge of those events. I hope after this year we can focus on what we can make the next 50 years positive ones for Birmingham.

[sleepless in Bham]

Originally Posted by cpg35223

I don't think it's a bad thing or a good thing. It just is. I mean it's not like we're going to sweep that stuff under a rug, despite it being a half-century ago.

To me, however, it does pretty tarnish the reputation of the Hansons, who ran the Birmingham News for decades. It was not a true newspaper, but more of a mouthpiece for the establishment, and they weren't above playing a little dirty pool from time to time. Heck, I remember when UAB cut its newspaper advertising budget and the publisher called the UAB president at the time and mentioned how he'd run a hit piece if they didn't scrape up some moolah. UAB evidently did and the hit piece was never published. That's just how they did biz at the News.

So much for The News being a promoter of the city. Then again it has often stood against any meaningful progress in Birmingham.

[bluebeard]

I think that celebrating the achievements of the civil rights era is a positive thing. People already have a negative view of Alabama and Birmingham. Celebrating the civil rights movement isn't going to change it. I have relatives that are even specifically going to visit here during this anniversary for an educational family trip. Facing up to wrongs is a good thing. It hasn't been that long... people that were involved (and shaped by) these events are still around. REcord history before its too late and they are passed away.

[bickyb]

A half century i.e. only 50 years ago is not long enough to diminish the atrocities committed in Birmingham (bombings, killings, segregation, George Ward Park activities, etc), or assassinations of prominent people like King in Memphis,. Cities like Bham and Memphis will be plagued by their own bad histories for a very very long time. Nor should other people forget these things. If you don't learn from history's mistakes, we shall repeat them ! but cities like Bham and Memphis try to pretend they have rocketed past their own PASTS !!, or worse yet , try to pretend to others, like outsiders, new businesses etc etc, that all these real ills have been eradicated or magically have disappeared on their own- WRONG, they have not, and any person visiting or moving to a Bham or a Memphis, can see it for themselves ! nobody is that blind, and it's good to teach history, no matter how grim or negative - why do you think the television is constantly engaged in telling stories, through movies, specials etc about NAZIs in Germany and how they also eliminated JEWS ? Nope, we haven't gotten past a measley 50 year old societal trauma - not by a longshot.

[raj kapoor]

Originally Posted by bickyb

A half century i.e. only 50 years ago is not long enough to diminish the atrocities committed in Birmingham (bombings, killings, segregation, George Ward Park activities, etc), or assassinations of prominent people like King in Memphis,. Cities like Bham and Memphis will be plagued by their own bad histories for a very very long time. Nor should other people forget these things. If you don't learn from history's mistakes, we shall repeat them ! but cities like Bham and Memphis try to pretend they have rocketed past their own PASTS !!, or worse yet , try to pretend to others, like outsiders, new businesses etc etc, that all these real ills have been eradicated or magically have disappeared on their own- WRONG, they have not, and any person visiting or moving to a Bham or a Memphis, can see it for themselves ! nobody is that blind, and it's good to teach history, no matter how grim or negative - why do you think the television is constantly engaged in telling stories, through movies, specials etc about NAZIs in Germany and how they also eliminated JEWS ? Nope, we haven't gotten past a measley 50 year old societal trauma - not by a longshot.

How long do you suggest that the people of the cities you mention suffer from attitudes like yours, both black and white. Those companies you mention bring jobs that don't see color. So you seem to suggest the opposite of what Dr. King spent his life trying to achieve. To judge the cities as a whole by actions caused vastly by a few rather than look at those cities today and see what a difference has been made indeed. And to see the economic reality of black and white people working together for the common good.

While you are at it what about the burning of Watts in L.A. ? And of course in Detroit, and the burning and looting of Underground Atlanta. What about the Olympic bombing in Atlanta. The Tulsa riots of the twenties killed more than all the above.

I for one believe you are misguided. A half century is enough for smart humans to mend their ways , but maybe not for you. If my black friends felt the way you must, they would not be my friends. Because with you there is no room for the key to healing, that is to be able to forgive ones transgressors. You mention Jews; the vast majority of Jews do not hate Germans but by your math they should.

Perhaps you should read some of Dr. Kings work, and his inspiration, Mahatma Gandhi. Since you missed his point you are not being part of the solution but part of the problem. Life is so much nicer when we are open to embrace rather than rigid with our arms folded in rejection.

Good luck and I hope you find a better way and put aside the bitterness, most of the faces you look into were not born fifty years ago as I suspect you were not either, so give each other a chance. Or is it you now that looks at the color first.

raj

[atler8]

Don't drag Atlanta into this discussion please. The Olympic bombing in Atlanta was done by an anti-abortion zealot from North Carolina who also terrorized Birmingham with a bombing of an abortion clinic there. He would be classified as a terrorist in today's atmosphere.
And indeed there was a riot in the aftermath of the Rodney King verdict that saw store window smashed & shops looted in Underground Atlanta but the complex did not have a fire that I recall nor can I find any evidence of it in media archives. Your characterization here of the event conjures up images of the multi-day riots in Watts & Newark & Detroit that were deadly events & is grossly misleading as a result.

[cpg35223]

Originally Posted by atler8

Don't drag Atlanta into this discussion please. The Olympic bombing in Atlanta was done by an anti-abortion zealot from North Carolina who also terrorized Birmingham with a bombing of an abortion clinic there. He would be classified as a terrorist in today's atmosphere.
And indeed there was a riot in the aftermath of the Rodney King verdict that saw store window smashed & shops looted in Underground Atlanta but the complex did not have a fire that I recall nor can I find any evidence of it in media archives. Your characterization here of the event conjures up images of the multi-day riots in Watts & Newark & Detroit that were deadly events & is grossly misleading as a result.

And yet it's perfectly acceptable for some backwards-looking knuckle-dragger living in Atlanta to come in here and trash us. Nice double standard you have there.

Here's the deal. Yeah, Birmingham has that past, no question about it. But I'm trying to think of any Southern city that had clean hands during the Civil Rights era, Atlanta included. Hey, we had Bull Connor, but Atlanta had Lester Maddox and his ax handles. Nobody bombed a church in Atlanta, but that doesn't mean that people over there didn't consider it. So let's dispense with the Birmingham Was Bad/Atlanta Was Good argument once and for all, shall we? The people responsible for those outrages are either dead or too old to matter any more.

What I find so weird is this compulsion some have to come onto this forum and make gratuitous swipes at a city that is really doing a good job of dealing with its past and moving forward. It's a strange bit of insecurity on their part, as if they can't stand that Birmingham might have begun getting its act together as a city. The progress is substantial, from a downtown that is revitalizing to an economy that has gone from being utterly dependent on heavy manufacturing thirty years ago to being far more diverse today. This is borne out in an unemployment rate that has gone from historically being among the country's worst to being rather robust, the growth of its per capita income, and the host of amenities springing up. What's more, it's apparent that the rate of change is accelerating. Anybody who actually spends time in this city as opposed to simply driving through on the interstate or spending one night in a Hampton Inn on the far end of town would know this.

If I wanted to really sit around and think about it, I'm pretty certain I could come up with a list as long as my forearm on all the problems Atlanta has, from its metastasizing suburbs and awful traffic to its own unresolved crime problems. But I really don't feel the need to hop on Atlanta forum and speak to those issues. That's the job of Atlantans to handle. Why they want to come on our forum is beyond me.

[atler8]

Look..I've never come on here & made a gratuitous swipe at your city so get that notion out of your head as I don't take kindly to being accused of that. Got it?
My post was in response to what Raj Kapoor wrote last night. He has written innacurate things about Atlanta before on Birmingham threads that I & others have had disagreement with, to put it mildly & I consider what he wrote last night to be something worthy of a response, especially since it involved mischaracterization in my view. I believe that you would do the same in defense of Birmingham on an Atlanta thread. So drop the accusation of me pulling a double standard here because I have never, ever bashed your city!!!
You certainly have your back up against me & I have done nothing here to insult you or your city but you certainly gave me a lambasting. And yes, there are knuckledraggers & knuckleheads everywhere & some of them do enjoy spreading their cheap shots around. Your response to me was way out of line.