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I am surprised that you refer to yourself as a healthcare professional and then discuss vaccines as " crazy chemicals or monkey cells or aborted fetus cells".
I don't believe that "you get" how awful it was when little children died from polio, whooping cough, measles and all the other childhood diseases that were eradicated starting in the 1950's. Modern vaccines are safer. With all the influx of Third World folks and their diseases into America, as a parent, I would do all I could to take care of my children.
I would agree with you that an STD vaccine for children is highly problematic. However, all the other diseases should be protected against.
In addition, even a home schooled child would need the vaccinations as no one lives isolated anymore. Oh, and when you say " We just want a more natural way of doing things," remember the diseases ARE the natural way.
Be a thoughtful parent.
I often describe myself as an astrophysicist, but that's only after watching the Big Bang Theory. I get the impression the OP watches a lot of Greys anatomy?
Point taken. And I didn't say we are looking to bypass ALL vaccines. The DTaP one has actually already been given in its first dose. That one is very serious. Polio, though? That disease hasn't been around in ~30 years, and only then it was from the vaccine at the time having the active strain in it. And the rotavirus is basically severe diarrhea. I understand this can dehydrate a child, which is more severe than with adults, for various reasons.
I guess part of my frustration with what the state recommends is this: the underlying reason behind the recommendations for these and other "recommended" medications is that most babies now are bottle fed with formula, completely missing out on the immunosuppressive properties of breast milk. Not that breast milk prevents pertussis or polio, but it does help prevent much more illness than a formula fed baby.
Take for example our experience in the hospital. Our pediatrician (who was the one on call, and pregnant by the way) was highly suggestive of a Vitamin K shot and a frenulum clip. She very well knows that the body self regulates Vitamin K at its highest point on day 8 of life, so why the shot? And she also highly recommended a frenulum clip, because the babies weren't gaining weight fast enough (it was the beginning of day 2, and there is only colostrum being produced). She noted that the latch was good. But she was really pushing formula to get the weight up. Why? The human body has a process that takes a natural course. But she and some of the nurses were so quick to push formula, shots, medications, etc. We even had one suggest Vitamin D supplements because babies don't get as much sun......?
Just part of the instant gratification, low patience world we live in. If there are things that are absolutely necessary and the prevention outweighs the potential danger of a disease, we're all for it. We're just looking for a physician that is okay with us only doing SOME of the vaccines. So far, we've only found all or nothing docs......
Point taken. And I didn't say we are looking to bypass ALL vaccines. The DTaP one has actually already been given in its first dose. That one is very serious. Polio, though? That disease hasn't been around in ~30 years, and only then it was from the vaccine at the time having the active strain in it. And the rotavirus is basically severe diarrhea. I understand this can dehydrate a child, which is more severe than with adults, for various reasons.
I guess part of my frustration with what the state recommends is this: the underlying reason behind the recommendations for these and other "recommended" medications is that most babies now are bottle fed with formula, completely missing out on the immunosuppressive properties of breast milk. Not that breast milk prevents pertussis or polio, but it does help prevent much more illness than a formula fed baby.
Take for example our experience in the hospital. Our pediatrician (who was the one on call, and pregnant by the way) was highly suggestive of a Vitamin K shot and a frenulum clip. She very well knows that the body self regulates Vitamin K at its highest point on day 8 of life, so why the shot? And she also highly recommended a frenulum clip, because the babies weren't gaining weight fast enough (it was the beginning of day 2, and there is only colostrum being produced). She noted that the latch was good. But she was really pushing formula to get the weight up. Why? The human body has a process that takes a natural course. But she and some of the nurses were so quick to push formula, shots, medications, etc. We even had one suggest Vitamin D supplements because babies don't get as much sun......?
Just part of the instant gratification, low patience world we live in. If there are things that are absolutely necessary and the prevention outweighs the potential danger of a disease, we're all for it. We're just looking for a physician that is okay with us only doing SOME of the vaccines. So far, we've only found all or nothing docs......
The fact is that rotavirus makes some young children very ill, resulting in hospitalization and sometimes death, though in the US, with good medical support, deaths are rare.
With the other issues, it is up to you to ask for the information you need to make decisions. Though you are probably past that point now, there are objective signs that can help to determine whether clipping the frenulum is a good idea:
Feeding twins is never easy, and even during those first few days after birth there can be signs that the babies are getting behind the curve, more perhaps with losing too much weight rather than failing to gain and possibly not producing enough wet diapers, a sign of not enough liquid intake.
Vitamin K is, to me, a no brainer. The bleeding abnormality it is used to prevent is rare but devastating when it occurs.
The internet objection to vitamin K appears to be related to a postulated increased risk of leukemia. That does not appear to be true:
"Because parenteral vitamin K has been shown to prevent VKDB [vitamin k deficiency bleeding]of the newborn and young infant and the risks of cancer have been unproven, the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends the following:
Vitamin K1 should be given to all newborns as a single, intramuscular dose of 0.5 to 1 mg.16
Additional research should be conducted on the efficacy, safety, and bioavailability of oral formulations and optimal dosing regimens of vitamin K to prevent late VKDB.
Health care professionals should promote awareness among families of the risks of late VKDB associated with inadequate vitamin K prophylaxis from current oral dosage regimens, particularly for newborns who are breastfed exclusively."
"Breastfeeding is the ideal form of infant feeding, but supplementation with Vitamin D, starting soon after birth, is recommended because breastfed infants generally do not obtain adequate Vitamin D from other sources."
Although it appears you have some problems communicating with your girls' pediatrician, it seems that she was providing you with good advice. Don't be afraid to discuss your concerns with your children's doctor. Get a second opinion if it is something serious. But realize that most often the suggestions she makes are based on sound scientific foundations. And that includes recommendations about vaccines.
By the way, breast milk is not immunosupressive. It does contain antibodies produced by the mother to various infections. That protection is temporary, however, not permanent.
Last edited by suzy_q2010; 01-24-2013 at 09:02 PM..
I am surprised that you refer to yourself as a healthcare professional and then discuss vaccines as " crazy chemicals or monkey cells or aborted fetus cells".
I don't believe that "you get" how awful it was when little children died from polio, whooping cough, measles and all the other childhood diseases that were eradicated starting in the 1950's. Modern vaccines are safer. With all the influx of Third World folks and their diseases into America, as a parent, I would do all I could to take care of my children.
I would agree with you that an STD vaccine for children is highly problematic. However, all the other diseases should be protected against.
In addition, even a home schooled child would need the vaccinations as no one lives isolated anymore. Oh, and when you say " We just want a more natural way of doing things," remember the diseases ARE the natural way.
Be a thoughtful parent.
Agreed.Can anyone imagine if every parent decided not to vaccinate their kid? Vaccines protect not only that person's kid, but everyone. It's the right thing to do.
I knew these responses were coming, and are valid.. We know we're in the minority. We have the book by Dr. Sears and have read it thoroughly. The studies you post are valid to a point, just like any study. But my response to those studies would be this:how valuable are the ones that show the importance of the flu vaccine when every year a new strain develops that avoids the vaccine? This year has been rough for the flu in the south. Given, it is the flu, not the rotavirus or polio. Just showing another side to argue. And I'm very aware breastmilk properties aren't permanent. I guess we'll just remain in the minorityand respect all the opinions we get. In my practice, I have seen way too many people who are worse off from side effects of meds than some sicknesses. Ever notice how much of a 30 second drug commercial is warnings under the guise of people happily throwing a frisbee? Not all medications created are good for you in the end...
To the OP, no doctor can *force* anything on you. Your consent is required for vaccines. If you are confident in your decision, then your doctor's objections to your refusal should not be that bothersome. You'll be hard-pressed to find a doctor that will not offer an objection, and if you do, that doctor will be an apathetic doctor, so there's that.
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But my response to those studies would be this:how valuable are the ones that show the importance of the flu vaccine when every year a new strain develops that avoids the vaccine? This year has been rough for the flu in the south. Given, it is the flu, not the rotavirus or polio.
Yes, and doctors are aware that influenza is a mutating virus, and because it is not super-reliable, and I've never had a pediatrician that is heavy-handed with flu vaccine recommendation unless it is a child at-risk for flu complications. Other viruses (such as polio) are not rapidly mutating, and are far more deadly. Without a vaccinated population, any outbreak could have nasty consequences.
Also consider that for some of these diseases, inoculation is for the community as much if not more as it is for the individual. While some of these illnesses are unlikely to hospitalize or kill a healthy person, they ARE very likely to hospitalize or kill a person with a compromised immune system. By collectively vaccinating, we are protecting the most vulnerable members of our society.
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I knew these responses were coming, and are valid.. We know we're in the minority
Minority is an understatement. Vaccines are so universally endorsed by the medical community - and I know there's all these tin-hat arguments about the medical indudstry and blah blah blah, but doctors are collectively a very bright, educated group of individuals - not some Vulcan mind-meld. They are perfectly capable of reading the same anti-vaccination information you're looking at, and evaluating it for themselves - yet all but none of them come to the conclusion that people should not vaccinate. If there was any true validity to the anti-vax movement, you'd think there'd be some small minority group of physicians (say, 10 or 5%) that shared your position. But that's not the case.
That said, I value your freedom to choose as you wish. But if you are making decisions based on a few scary websites and a book written by a single errant doctor, you might want to reconsider.
[quote=smellycat42;27934200]In my practice, I have seen way too many people who are worse off from side effects of meds than some sicknesses. quote]
I would guess this is because you have not seen a child suffering from polio or smallpox... both diseases that have been all but iradicated by innoculations. You don't have a complete perspective on this because you are not likely seeing the other side of the coin.
Not that it matters now, but I realized I said breastmilk was "immunosuppresive". That was the wrong word and not what I meant. It is immune boosting, not suppressive..... Just thought I'd clarify.
Not sure about the troll comment. But to sabinerose, actually in see the population that grew up in the polio era. Folks that are 70-100 years old. On 10-20 different medications.. Sure polio is gone, and and I'm glad of it. But try asking these people who take a medication for restless legs, only to find it makes them fall and break their hip. Or an antidepressant that keeps them awake at night, hearing voices. Sure, the medication did its job, but what were the sequelae afterwards? This is not a blanket statement of all meds. I could easily argue most, though. And my argument about vaccines is not their effectiveness. Most are effective and seem of be improving. It's side effects, methods of production, and things that generally aren't natural (I.e formaldehyde and monkey cells) that just don't seem right being put in a human, much less a 4 month old child. I want the healthiest option possible.
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