Birmingham transit options??? (Hoover: 2015, homes, bus)

[raj kapoor]

We often have people who are reading from the 'Weld version of the new testament' when it comes to discussing the interstate system.
These are not local roads and must adhere to there original purpose. That cannot be done if a city here or there suddenly turns all or part of theirs into a surface street with forty mile speed limits.

Actually we can have all things we set our minds to. Freeways are not unlike airports, railways, rivers, power 'row'. They are essential and although not always preferable they can be assimilated into our communities with creative effort and support. The Weld approach to freeways in Birmingham is just a new version of a group helping us shoot ourselves in the foot again and again. (terminal station, airport location, bjcc expansion, legion field replacement, maps, transit, and more) We talk about building urban environments, but want to have Mayberry streets. (actually we have wonderful streets, why not a few expressways since this is a large city, with a lot of traffic. Hey they serve different purposes) Lakeshore Pkwy is beautiful, but such a street could not replace RME and facilitate the same efficiency of moving vast amounts of traffic. 'Let's be reasonable', never seems to be one of the choices in these conversations.

Since this discussion always degenerates into something similar to being irrational, (such as suggesting that spending 1 1/2 billion dollars on sinking a 1/4 mile section of downtown freeway is feasible and appropriate), well at that point I must bow out of the thread. Too deep in mire to waste my time , yet again.

[wardamnbham]

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Originally Posted by Tourian

I read they said because of the utility connections this could not be done, or that it would raise the cost astronomicaly. Has there been a feasibility study done by someone else that proves this to be false?

Astronomical is subjective but, yes, it would raise the cost significantly. Not impossible to do, but an engineering challenge nonetheless. That said, the cost is not prohibitive. It's a matter of political will more than financial capital. The latest estimate was around $700MM. ALDOT pegged it at $1B. Given the fact that the bridge replacement will be obsolete in 20 years, the more expensive solution should definitely be considered.


I have read that they do not own all the property necessary to do this and acquiring it would take too much time. Time that the current bridges do not have. Also, this would disturb a superfund site where the Ensley Works is AND there is a big railyard there that they would have to have permission to build over or disrupt in some way. It does seem that this could be the 2065 plan or whenever these new proposed bridges wear out. Has this been disproved?

ALDOT has softened their position on this. They agree it's the best solution but the reality is that, as you've pointed out, it would take too much time. Ideally, the city is moving forward with plans to study this route now so when the replacement reaches capacity, the Finley corridor segment will be ready to open. However, long term planning has not been one of this state's strong suits. Because of this (how long it would take to build the Finley route), many in the anti-replacement movement feel a wide, at-grade boulevard, would be a suitable compromise for now.


People with means white or black don't want to live under an interstate. But it is a problem that just is, we can't just move them or remove them on a whim. These new bridges are designed to reduce noise as well as let in more light.

The new design will be an improvement over what's currently there. No doubt about it. As I'm sure you know, many feel that an elevated structure shouldn't be there in the first place.

[Tourian]

But it still would be 2 to 4 times more expensive then the current plan. I'd love for them to bury it to as opposed to moving it to Finley. I just don't see a way for the state to come up with the money. We already have most of Aldots attention with the NB and the 280 improvements and the 22 interchange. There's just not that much more juice to squeeze.

[sleepless in Bham]

^^^There are a couple of ways ALDOT could come up with the money for it. Either idea wont win the popularity contest.

HOT reversable lanes on 20 and 59 from I-459 to 31st St from the east. From Allison Bonnett to Arkadelphia Rd from the west. OR...

Raise the gas tax

[raj kapoor]

I never expect something for nothing.

[sleepless in Bham]

Tearing down the downtown bridges isn't the most impossible idea I've heard. Most through truck traffic is already using I-459, but I-20/59 along Finley Blvd would have to be completed for the remaining traffic wanting to get to access I-65 North. The old freeway sections would have its speed limit lowered to around 50 mph and decreasing closer to downtown.

[sleepless in Bham]

Originally Posted by raj kapoor

I never expect something for nothing.

Of course not, but with tight budgets on the state and federal levels, it does require some out of the box thinking for finding ways to fund needed infrastructure improvements. Something ALDOT isn't really known for.

[wardamnbham]

Originally Posted by sleepless in bham

of course not, but with tight budgets on the state and federal levels, it does require some out of the box thinking for finding ways to fund needed infrastructure improvements. Something aldot isn't really known for.

+1

[bhamoutlook]

It looks like they have decided to go with BRT instead of LRT. I think choosing that option is a bit of a mistake but I welcome the addition. I'm wondering what the timeline for completion will be? A BRT done correctly still requires a dedicated street so it's actually "rapid." Some cities try to say they have BRT but don't.

[Tourian]

I can't say I am surprised. LRT is just so expensive and requires more time and planning to implement. At least if they do the BRT right with dedicated lanes they can later be converted to LRT lines later on.