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Old 03-20-2015, 11:30 AM
 
3,259 posts, read 3,770,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
Is this a real question? A real attempt at discourse?

Ok.

It should be titled, How long will Alabama continue to look up to Tennessee.

Tennessee does a better job of backing its lead horse. They do things to encourage business to come to Nashville. Alabama doesn't. They'd rather buy off businesses to come to Huntsville. Birmingham is too black and too blue to ever receive the attention it needs from red Alabama. Seems like Memphis is the red-headed step child in Tennessee. Gee, I wonder why. Majority black, majority blue also. Hmmm.

Also, Nashville merged with Davidson. Look at their population figures on wiki:
I'll cut to the chase so you don't have to.

in 1960 they had about 171k people.
in 1970 they suddenly had 448k.

That wasn't because they are so progressive and booming, they just artificially expanded their borders and tax base. Maybe that isn't the silver bullet that will solve all of Birmingham's ails, but it probably wouldn't hurt to go coterminous with Jefferson co.

People think there's anything magical going on and special about Nashville other then that. I do not drink that Hunch Punch.
I agree that I think being coterminous with the county would be good, but there are quite a few municipalities that would not be on board with that for obvious reasons.

Also, I am aware of the arbitrarily expanding geopolitical borders as I have tried to discuss CSA/MSA population figures when we were talking about Talladega. But what were the populations of Davidson county from say 1950 to now compared to Jefferson County?

And I also don't totally disagree that the state government is part of the problem. There are all kinds of backward issues both socially and fiscally. But the fact is, those issues ARE in place and other southern metropolitan areas ARE passing Birmingham by. We can sit here and debate who is to take what piece of the blame, but there is a lot the city could be doing for itself that it isn't doing imo.
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Old 03-20-2015, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,769,587 times
Reputation: 10120
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post
I agree that I think being coterminous with the county would be good, but there are quite a few municipalities that would not be on board with that for obvious reasons.
And obviously that's the problem. If black and white and rich and poor can't work together then no, it won't. Nashville is majority white. Memphis is majority black. Birmingham is majority black.

Quote:
Also, I am aware of the arbitrarily expanding geopolitical borders as I have tried to discuss CSA/MSA population figures when we were talking about Talladega. But what were the populations of Davidson county from say 1950 to now compared to Jefferson County?
Go look it up. I really don't see how that matters. Alabama doesn't help Jefferson Co. either, because - surprise, that would help Birmingham.

Quote:
And I also don't totally disagree that the state government is part of the problem. There are all kinds of backward issues both socially and fiscally. But the fact is, those issues ARE in place and other southern metropolitan areas ARE passing Birmingham by.
I believe it is because of state government. All you have said is you don't agree with me which I'm not surprised. What are "all kinds of backward issues?"

Quote:
We can sit here and debate who is to take what piece of the blame, but there is a lot the city could be doing for itself that it isn't doing imo.
No, there's been no debate. You and the other critics say its 100% Birmingham. The minute a person like me suggests otherwise, I have to put up with personal attacks from all directions. But its cool. I think the city and its government are doing a great job with the resources available to them and I'll repost it and what CPG said to back that up as it counters what you are saying here.
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Old 03-20-2015, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,769,587 times
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Here is mine and CPG's response to your belief that city isn't doing enough:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
What can be done is what is BEING done. We've got a good mayor who is doing everything he can to lure business downtown and to make it an attractive place for people to want to hang out and spend money on.

All the things that the snide commenters here turn their nose up at and laugh about are just about all a mayor of a city with ~212K people can muster. So yeah, craft beer, minor league baseball, a nice park, a museum or two, the land bank, etc. Slowly but surely lights are coming back on downtown and small business within the metro is moving downtown from out of the burbs. White and black people with money are coming into the city to spend more and more time and money and not just hopping in their cars and dippin' OTM when 5:00 rolls around. We did get Oxford Pharmaceuticals, but if you want a new big skyscraper or an F500 HQ or a major production factory, Bentley and the state government are going to have to get on board with the idea of a bigger better and more powerful Birmingham. Even the Birmingham Business Alliance has been proven to not have our best interest at heart. One of the key players hometown is Huntsville and they the council has vowed to pull funding from them based on their behavior with Watts and UAB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Yeah. Totally agree with you here. Here's the thing. The people who carp keep offering up this moving target. It used to be that it was just a dirty industrial town. Okay, so banking and healthcare came to predominate the economy. Next, there was nothing to do here. Okay, now there's a raft of things to do, places to eat, cool entertainment districts, you name it. Next, downtown is a deserted slum. Okay, so suddenly, downtown is showing all kinds of life and new construction, so that it's really enjoying a renaissance of sorts. The airport sucks. Okay, we renovated the airport. The politicians are corrupt. Okay, the offenders were put in the pokey, and the current mayor is a pretty good one. People in the suburbs don't want anything to do with Birmingham proper. Hmmm, seems as if businesses are beginning to move back in. Crime rates are high. Yep. Work needs to be done there.

In other words, the past thirty years, this has been a city that has dug itself out of a tremendous hole by steadily addressing one problem after another, challenges that simply weren't faced by cities such as Nashville or Atlanta or Raleigh. Anyone who lived in this city in 1980 would be amazed at what has changed over the past 35 years. Oh, sure, Birmingham took a major hit in the banking meltdown, especially given how important finance, real estate, insurance, and construction are to the city's economy. You don't lose two superregionals overnight without it sending shock waves through the city's economy. But unemployment is back to below that of the national average, per capita income is in the second quintile, and there's steady growth in healthcare, pharma and even banking. Real estate prices have made a comeback, too.

Is it perfect? Of course not. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. Economic development remains a huge priority, especially since the metro paused due to the twin issues of the JeffCo bankruptcy and the banking meltdown. But the way I see it, a lot of progress has been made, paving the way for what should be a really interesting five years to come.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Madison, AL
1,614 posts, read 2,300,850 times
Reputation: 1656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
Is this a real question? A real attempt at discourse?
in 1960 they had about 171k people.
in 1970 they suddenly had 448k.

That wasn't because they are so progressive and booming, they just artificially expanded their borders and tax base. Maybe that isn't the silver bullet that will solve all of Birmingham's ails, but it probably wouldn't hurt to go coterminous with Jefferson co.

People think there's anything magical going on and special about Nashville other then that. I do not drink that Hunch Punch.
1970 was 45 years ago. Of course they had an instant population boost when Nashville went from a city to a metro gov't & combined with the county. That accounts for the big jump between 1960-70.

But what about since 1980? Or since 1990? Or since 2000? You can't attribute Nashville's more recent growth to the fact that they became metro 45-50 years ago. How does Nashville's population growth in the past 10-20-30 years compare to Birmingham's?

I've spent most of my life in TN and consider myself a TN native, and you're right, the state does a good job of promoting Nashville. But, TN promotes the rest of the state pretty well, too. Chattanooga won the most recent big prize, with the new VW plant. Nissan moved their North American headquarters to Franklin several years ago, and I read just last week that they are expanding and adding 2000 more jobs there. And it doesn't hurt, I suppose, that Nashville is both the most populous city AND the state capital. Birmingham doesn't have that advantage.

As far as B'ham and Memphis being discriminated against because they are majority black, IDK. By the 2010 Census Davidson Co TN was 28.4% black; Jefferson Co was 42.8% black and Shelby Co TN (Memphis) was 53.1% black. (I just looked up COUNTY stats because you can't separate Nashville & Davidson Co b/c they are metro. However, if you looked at URBAN Nashville proper (inside the 440/Briley Parkway loop), comparable to B'ham city limits, the black % would definitely be higher than the 28.4% That 28.4% is VERY diluted because it includes the areas of Belle Meade, Green Hills, Bellevue, and Oak Hill that are by FAR majority white. So, I don't buy the "Nashville gets preferential treatment by TN because it's majority white" argument.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Madison, AL
1,614 posts, read 2,300,850 times
Reputation: 1656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
People think there's anything magical going on and special about Nashville other then that. I do not drink that Hunch Punch.

They must have something special going on because they've run circles around not only Birmingham, but other similarly-sized southern cities.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,769,587 times
Reputation: 10120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TN2HSV View Post
1970 was 45 years ago. Of course they had an instant population boost when Nashville went from a city to a metro gov't & combined with the county. That accounts for the big jump between 1960-70.
No kidding. That's what I said. Maybe you should read more closely before you start typing.

Quote:
But what about since 1980? Or since 1990? Or since 2000? You can't attribute Nashville's more recent growth to the fact that they became metro 45-50 years ago. How does Nashville's population growth in the past 10-20-30 years compare to Birmingham's?
The system working as intended. Tennessee has been behind Nashville nurturing its growth throughout that time. Meanwhile Birmingham had to fend for itself through the decline of the steel industry and the banking meltdown.

Quote:
I've spent most of my life in TN and consider myself a TN native, and you're right, the state does a good job of promoting Nashville. But, TN promotes the rest of the state pretty well, too. Chattanooga won the most recent big prize, with the new VW plant. Nissan moved their North American headquarters to Franklin several years ago, and I read just last week that they are expanding and adding 2000 more jobs there. And it doesn't hurt, I suppose, that Nashville is both the most populous city AND the state capital. Birmingham doesn't have that advantage.
Wait...what? Say that again?

Quote:
and you're right
Just checking, wasn't sure if I imagined that or not. Do they do a good job of promoting Memphis? I know it is a difficult concept for you but Franklin is a suburb of Nashville, so Nissan is a win for Nashville.

Quote:
As far as B'ham and Memphis being discriminated against because they are majority black, IDK.
Well let's make it easy and not call it discrimination - when it comes to corporate welfare. Let's just call it apathy. Birmingham has been left to fend for itself - it largely exists in the so called "free" market that I've heard people talk about. So its slow turnaround is organic and normal. Nashville is getting extra help from a rich uncle.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Madison, AL
1,614 posts, read 2,300,850 times
Reputation: 1656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
I know it is a difficult concept for you but Franklin is a suburb of Nashville, so Nissan is a win for Nashville.

Why so condescending? Does it make you feel better?

Yes, I realize Franklin is a suburb of Nashville. I lived in Franklin, TN from 1998-2002.

When is the last time you visited Nashville?
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Madison, AL
1,614 posts, read 2,300,850 times
Reputation: 1656
[quote=Tourian;38892509 Nashville is getting extra help from a rich uncle.[/quote]

Really??? Hahahaha.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,769,587 times
Reputation: 10120
Quote:
Originally Posted by TN2HSV View Post
Why so condescending? Does it make you feel better?

Yes, I realize Franklin is a suburb of Nashville. I lived in Franklin, TN from 1998-2002.

When is the last time you visited Nashville?
I've gotten more then enough attitude from you to warrant it. Do not play innocent now.

We've talked enough here about the suburb/metro relationship and it seems to get bent to suit the whims of the argument and that isn't right. You mentioned Nissan and Franklin as part of your statement that Tennessee backs the rest of the state and not just Nashville, so the fact that Franklin is a suburb HAS to be pointed out. I do not deny that Tennessee doesn't JUST help Nashville. I never said that, nor was it my intention to imply it. I believe they FAVOR Nashville 1st, followed by the rest of Tennessee, with Memphis looking like a chump from the outside as if it were really in Mississippi.
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Old 03-20-2015, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Madison, AL
1,614 posts, read 2,300,850 times
Reputation: 1656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
I've gotten more then enough attitude from you to warrant it. Do not play innocent now.

We've talked enough here about the suburb/metro relationship and it seems to get bent to suit the whims of the argument and that isn't right. You mentioned Nissan and Franklin as part of your statement that Tennessee backs the rest of the state and not just Nashville, so the fact that Franklin is a suburb HAS to be pointed out. I do not deny that Tennessee doesn't JUST help Nashville. I never said that, nor was it my intention to imply it. I believe they FAVOR Nashville 1st, followed by the rest of Tennessee, with Memphis looking like a chump from the outside as if it were really in Mississippi.

Have you ever been to Memphis? It has a lot more in common with Mississippi than the rest of TN. Demographics, geography, etc. And there are probably as many or more Ole Miss alumni in Memphis than there are UT. Some people affectionately refer to Memphis as "the capital of North Mississippi". I can't speak to whether Memphis gets the shaft when it comes to economic development, but I do know that Nashville isn't the only place that good things happen in TN. I mentioned the VW plant in Chattanooga. And little old Decherd, TN in Franklin County is home to a large Nissan plant, and it was there before Nissan moved their headquarters to Franklin (the town, in Williamson Co).

Just as Memphis has more in common with Miss. than TN, I think HSV/Madison has a lot more in common with TN than much of Alabama. Lord knows we have plenty of commuters from TN who work here!

Where do you think the state of AL concentrates its economic efforts, since BHAM gets the short end of the stick? T
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