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Old 05-19-2016, 05:56 PM
 
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John Rogers is rightfully wanting answers concerning the 'dedicated tax' that has been collected but not spent on the expansion of the BJCC. This tax has been spent in many places but not on BJCC. And why should it be spent for a UAB stadium which UAB announced was not going to be paid for by them.
I am certainly all for UAB, but I am not for subsidizing any of their growth with taxes collected specifically for one city project.
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tourian View Post
If there is a lawsuit holding things up I hope it gets tossed out quickly. Usually the argument is that development goes to serve nicer more established areas, while older, poorer neighborhoods get left out in the cold. But spending money on the BJCC is seen as a detriment? Unreal

You are so right about neighborhood leaders and their cronies in City Hall. They don't know the golden goose when they lay eyes on it, and they don't realize that the city must address the commercial neighborhoods while the irons are getting fired up. I suppose people think their little property taxes cover the whole city budget. They would be wrong.
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Old 05-19-2016, 07:36 PM
 
Location: Irondale, Al
32 posts, read 28,991 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by preguntas View Post
John Rogers is rightfully wanting answers concerning the 'dedicated tax' that has been collected but not spent on the expansion of the BJCC. This tax has been spent in many places but not on BJCC. And why should it be spent for a UAB stadium which UAB announced was not going to be paid for by them.
I am certainly all for UAB, but I am not for subsidizing any of their growth with taxes collected specifically for one city project.
That's not what's happening. The BJCC wants to build a stadium that seats 45-50k. The BJCC would hold the bonds and own the facility. UAB would be the primary tenant and pay rent to the BJCC, which the UA Board of Trustees has already approved. It would be part of a plan that also includes updating the existing facility and expanding it. The money from the tax to fund the BJCC would finally be spent to improve the BJCC instead of being raided by the city to spend on whatever pays them the most graft.

The city *needs* a decent stadium. Legion Field is a dump, and if an honest building inspector looked at it would be shut down. That leaves the Hoover Met and Lawson Field, neither of which are worth much. Birmingham lost the Super Six because nothing had been done to maintain and update LF (and because having it in Auburn and Tuscaloosa was a valuable recruiting tool). It used to be held here because B'ham was centrally located. If we're lucky we might to be able to get it held in Birmingham every third year.

There are any number of other events that could be also held there - the Birmingham Bowl, stadium sized concerts, soccer, etc. A stadium that size may be small for the Classic, but we're going to lose the Classic anyhow if we try to keep it at Lesion Field. It's a pit, someone is going to bid to get it at a better facility and take that away too if we don't do something to get ahead of it.

As to UAB in 2017, they would have to get moving pretty quickly for that to be viable. There is a whole lot of money that is committed that has not yet been announced, but you can only pour concrete so fast.
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Old 05-20-2016, 01:08 AM
 
1,038 posts, read 1,328,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai56 View Post
That's not what's happening. The BJCC wants to build a stadium that seats 45-50k. The BJCC would hold the bonds and own the facility. UAB would be the primary tenant and pay rent to the BJCC, which the UA Board of Trustees has already approved. It would be part of a plan that also includes updating the existing facility and expanding it. The money from the tax to fund the BJCC would finally be spent to improve the BJCC instead of being raided by the city to spend on whatever pays them the most graft.

The city *needs* a decent stadium. Legion Field is a dump, and if an honest building inspector looked at it would be shut down. That leaves the Hoover Met and Lawson Field, neither of which are worth much. Birmingham lost the Super Six because nothing had been done to maintain and update LF (and because having it in Auburn and Tuscaloosa was a valuable recruiting tool). It used to be held here because B'ham was centrally located. If we're lucky we might to be able to get it held in Birmingham every third year.

There are any number of other events that could be also held there - the Birmingham Bowl, stadium sized concerts, soccer, etc. A stadium that size may be small for the Classic, but we're going to lose the Classic anyhow if we try to keep it at Lesion Field. It's a pit, someone is going to bid to get it at a better facility and take that away too if we don't do something to get ahead of it.

As to UAB in 2017, they would have to get moving pretty quickly for that to be viable. There is a whole lot of money that is committed that has not yet been announced, but you can only pour concrete so fast.


You continue to make a point that so many have for years which is that you think that somehow this was about a sports stadium. If what you have written (source?) comes true, then the tax will still be spent on something for which it was not dedicated. The focus for which it approved was always the need for exhibition expansion.


It would be the single worst possible location for an open air stadium in this state. Not to mention its imminently limited usefulness next to an exhibition and performing arts facility.
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Old 05-20-2016, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,704,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorsai56 View Post
That's not what's happening. The BJCC wants to build a stadium that seats 45-50k. The BJCC would hold the bonds and own the facility. UAB would be the primary tenant and pay rent to the BJCC, which the UA Board of Trustees has already approved. It would be part of a plan that also includes updating the existing facility and expanding it. The money from the tax to fund the BJCC would finally be spent to improve the BJCC instead of being raided by the city to spend on whatever pays them the most graft.

From my understanding the city raided the fund to build Regions Field, the Crossplex and Railroad Park maybe Uptown and the Westin. Now, I'm not so naïve to think that whenever projects like this get done that there aren't special favors paid to pet contractors, lawyers, etc but it is pretty clear that the positive effect on the city these projects have had. The city also operates with a surplus because of the fund but also because of the fact that they operate with a surplus.

Quote:
The city *needs* a decent stadium. Legion Field is a dump, and if an honest building inspector looked at it would be shut down. That leaves the Hoover Met and Lawson Field, neither of which are worth much. Birmingham lost the Super Six because nothing had been done to maintain and update LF (and because having it in Auburn and Tuscaloosa was a valuable recruiting tool). It used to be held here because B'ham was centrally located. If we're lucky we might to be able to get it held in Birmingham every third year.

I get that and I agree with you, however it isn't right to use a fund designed to give the city a better convention hall to build it with. Stadiums can be renovated...even Legion Field. Structures in worse shape have been brought back and made better.

Quote:
There are any number of other events that could be also held there - the Birmingham Bowl, stadium sized concerts, soccer, etc. A stadium that size may be small for the Classic, but we're going to lose the Classic anyhow if we try to keep it at Lesion Field. It's a pit, someone is going to bid to get it at a better facility and take that away too if we don't do something to get ahead of it.

As to UAB in 2017, they would have to get moving pretty quickly for that to be viable. There is a whole lot of money that is committed that has not yet been announced, but you can only pour concrete so fast.
Therein lies the rub. The Classic has drawn over 60K, so either they don't sell as many tickets or they use LF anyone if it doesn't get torn down. Birmingham is in the middle of the two schools and I doubt either of them is in danger of building a stadium that big if they were to do a Home and Home game. So unless Mobile wants to through their hat in the ring, I doubt there's any real movement to take the game away from Birmingham. Getting the highschool championship back would be nice but when you have two very prominent SEC schools in the state with strong recruiting programs and clout...it was probably going to go that way to begin with.


The pros and cons of this will get weighed out I'm sure, but I wish we could know what exactly is in store for the BJCC and its expansion/renovation instead of hearing so much about this new open air stadium for UAB.
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Old 05-20-2016, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Irondale, Al
32 posts, read 28,991 times
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I am a UAB fan, season ticket holder, and booster and have been for many years. My wife has been on staff at UAB for 27 years. I was an active part of the movement to bring football back. I marched down University, protested in front of the Admin building, lobbied in Montgomery, and have donated money, time and brainpower. I've been in meetings that included people up to the highest level of the boosters who forced Ray Watts to bring the program back.

Bottom line, I know a lot of people who are involved, and while I am by no stretch claiming to be an insider I know a lot of folks who are. I hear stuff, and if it is not something I have been told to keep quiet about I can talk about what I hear. Coach Clark held six breakfasts with members of the Foundation, local business leaders, and donors at Iron City over the last three weeks. I was invited and went to one of them.

--------------------------------------

The Classic is a problem in terms of the stadium design. It simply does not make any sense to build a stadium that seats 60k + for one event, and there is basically nothing else that I know of which would draw that sort of crowds. I don't know how that will be dealt with. There are some people involved who would like to see a stadium that size built, and they might have the pull to get it done, but everything that I hear indicates something more on the order of 45-55k. The dome is pretty well a dead issue since a dome or retractable roof stadium would cost two to three times more to build. Given that the funding for a stadium is not exactly a no brainer as it is I simply don't see that happening.

The architectural team was supposed to be back with plans and estimates in mid-April, but John Rogers brought his suit and nothing has been released to my knowledge. I imagine that some of the big players on the Football Foundation have seen the figures but nothing has been released. This was the design package that would have laid out exactly what is proposed and cost estimates for it. I have been told that it includes renovation and updating of the current facility, a new convention hall, and the stadium. There is a ton of private money already committed toward the stadium part of the design but that is being held quiet until the time is right to announce it, in a similar way to how the corporate pledges for the new UAB football building continue to be announced in $500k increments every two or three weeks for maximum PR value. The BJCC is going to float a bond issue to fund all of this, and the tax income will be tapped for debt service. I can't tell you in any detail how those figures will work, the numbers have not been released.

As to bringing back Legion Field, when is the last time you attended an event there? The city just spent a million dollars putting lipstick on that pig, so it got some fresh paint, but we're talking about a facility which was built when Calvin Coolidge was President. The location in and of itself costs attendance numbers, and it simply does not have the sort of amenities that are completely normal in a modern facility, let alone any luxury suites or the like. Go to the Birmingham Bowl web site and read the comments left by visitors over the last several years. They come from schools that have P5 level stadiums, and they were brutal in their assessments. There is no way to make it any more than barely functional. It has very poor positions for TV cameras for instance - they can only be set up well on the home side, so televised games show the empty visitor's side of the field. A couple of years ago there was no hot water in the locker rooms, including the home locker room. While the Parks Board improved things in 2014, the last year UAB was playing there, previously it was not certain that you would find soap or paper towels in the rest rooms. Seriously.

It's a pit, trust me, I have been to a lot of games there over the last fifteen years.

On the other hand, a new and modern facility at Uptown means hotel stays and food and beverage sales there. It brings to the north side of town the same sort of growth that Regions Field did to the Railroad Park area. More than that, bottom line, there are about thirty of the biggest business leaders in Birmingham whose deep pockets say they want it sited there. I think that their influence is going to have more to do with where it goes than anything else. UAB owns land where the Carol Garrison era on-campus stadium was intended to go, but while the UA Board of Trustees has been supportive of leasing at an Uptown stadium owned by the city there is no way in hell they will approve an OCS for UAB, not until two or three individuals on the BoT die anyhow. There are not that many areas of the city where enough land for a stadium and parking for it can be sited, not that are in a desirable area.

Last edited by Dorsai56; 05-20-2016 at 06:10 PM..
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Old 05-20-2016, 08:59 PM
 
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Just have Jimmy Filler tell me that he and a few others will decide what will be done on land owned by the citizens of Jefferson County.
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Old 05-20-2016, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Irondale, Al
32 posts, read 28,991 times
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I have no idea what his plans are and don't claim to. I don't move in that sort of circle. What I'm saying is that when you have people like him, Don Hire, Craft O'Neil, Miller Gorrie, Johnnie Johns, and Hatton Smith, you have people of influence working to get the project done.

I'm not talking about anything that hasn't been in the paper somewhere along the way.

https://www.uab.edu/news/service/ite...ics-foundation

That's old, there were probably forty-five people on the last Foundation list I saw.
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Old 05-21-2016, 02:26 AM
 
Location: Birmingham
11,787 posts, read 17,704,519 times
Reputation: 10120
I've been to LF twice in the past five years and know that it is substandard. But money can fix anything. I love the "lipstick on a pig" comments. Never heard that before. Like I already said...there are examples of worse nearly condemened stadiums being brought back and up to current TV amenity standards it just takes will and money.

But I get it. If the powers that be want to do something else than they will. And part of me agrees with it. The way and the motives is what I'm not sure of. But don't patronize me with "have I been there" or lipstick/pig comments. That's just typical UAB booster talk. The anti anything pro-Bham crowd say the same thing. If ASU and State were higher profile and the Classic were a bigger priority to those with the money than those extra 5-10k seats left out in the cold wouldn't be dismissed so easily. But again they aren't the ones bringing extra money to the table which is all that matters. So let's not get it twisted when we go to rationalizing this highly controversial decision.
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Old 05-21-2016, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Irondale, Al
32 posts, read 28,991 times
Reputation: 27
I did not intend to patronize. There are few events that bring people to Legion Field any more. The Classic draws a lot of people once a year. UAB games draw a smaller amount, half a dozen times a year. Other than that, it's the odd soccer game or a band event on occasion. There are a lot of people in this town who have not even thought about setting foot in Legion Field since the Tide quit playing there. I asked if you had seen it anytime recently as a legitimate question, not as snark. There are a lot of people who don't realize the upper deck isn't there any more. There are a lot of people who don't know it isn't there any more because chunks of concrete kept falling onto the seats below. I don't know that I know of many substandard, nearly condemned stadiums being rebuilt. I know of well maintained older venues that were expanded, but in general municipal stadiums which are old and inadequate are replaced by modern construction designs.

I'm *not* an anti-Birmingham person. I wouldn't think you get too many of those posting on this site, although I'm new here. This would seem to be a much more helpful and positive a venue. I certainly have not seen the sort of negative filth that is commonplace in the al.com comments section, for instance... and I'm glad of it.

How large a new facility is needed is a legitimate question. As to the extra seats for the Classic, I don't know how many millions it would take to enlarge the stadium by ten thousand seats. I was thinking in terms of what it would cost to build versus how often that many seats would be needed. If it is important to the Classic fans, they need to get involved and lobby for their interests. I have no knowledge of how the interests of the Classic have been represented, but certainly the City is well aware of its importance locally. This stadium is not happening in a vacuum, it's not like a dozen rich white guys in a smoke filled room are making all the choices. It has been an open political process, and the city and the BJCC are big movers who control the property. There is lobbying and input regarding the stadium, yes, but it is being done by people who are donating multiple millions toward getting it built.

Last edited by Dorsai56; 05-21-2016 at 10:16 AM..
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