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Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
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I am sure plenty of the frequent posters are aware of the constant balkanization of the region's school districts (which is similar to the municipal governments) yet the region core has only seen marginal growth in recent years. So let have an open and honest discussion about the real reasons why so certain areas within the Jefferson and Shelby County school districts are so determined to form their own school districts when taxation revenue and funding already so limited in region.
Let's be honestly, them seems to only happen in areas of both counties where racial and economic diversity seems to be limited at best or non-existent. It's fine to want the best for your children, but the tacit motivation to "separate from them" because you feel like your representative on the existing county school board is not solving the overall problems associated with the quality of education. Actually, the region only has seen growth in the core counties in recent years. The likelihood of seeing any massive exponential growth won't be until either there is a major economic development boom to form from continued pace of intown revitalization or landing a major economic development relocation to the area that will bring many transplants then this whole all of these new suburban school districts is just pointless turf delineations over a limited tax pot.
This whole region is Birmingham and nobody from elsewhere cares about who your local mayor and council or school board member is when there is little to non-existent regional cooperation. I mean yeah it's good to be all about local control, but there is a certain point when it just becomes counterproductive and counter-intuitive for the region's future and reputation to potential corporate recruiters and location scouts...
I am sure plenty of the frequent posters are aware of the constant balkanization of the region's school districts (which is similar to the municipal governments) yet the region core has only seen marginal growth in recent years. So let have an open and honest discussion about the real reasons why so certain areas within the Jefferson and Shelby County school districts are so determined to form their own school districts when taxation revenue and funding already so limited in region.
Let's be honestly, them seems to only happen in areas of both counties where racial and economic diversity seems to be limited at best or non-existent. It's fine to want the best for your children, but the tacit motivation to "separate from them" because you feel like your representative on the existing county school board is not solving the overall problems associated with the quality of education. Actually, the region only has seen growth in the core counties in recent years. The likelihood of seeing any massive exponential growth won't be until either there is a major economic development boom to form from continued pace of intown revitalization or landing a major economic development relocation to the area that will bring many transplants then this whole all of these new suburban school districts is just pointless turf delineations over a limited tax pot.
This whole region is Birmingham and nobody from elsewhere cares about who your local mayor and council or school board member is when there is little to non-existent regional cooperation. I mean yeah it's good to be all about local control, but there is a certain point when it just becomes counterproductive and counter-intuitive for the region's future and reputation to potential corporate recruiters and location scouts...
Let's make it simple....this is certainly a cultural issue, and that falls along racial lines 80% of the time. In order to move past it, all sides are going to have to willing to accept the shortcomings of their own, and be willing to give more than they take. Until that happens this argument will go on forever.
The public school system is broken anyway, it's not much more than a glorified daycare. People like me have abandoned it entirely (homeschooling, not private school) simply because we don't see that cultural compromise taking place....ever.
Yeah, I'm probably a little more negative about it than others, but it is what it is.
I am sure plenty of the frequent posters are aware of the constant balkanization of the region's school districts (which is similar to the municipal governments) yet the region core has only seen marginal growth in recent years. So let have an open and honest discussion about the real reasons why so certain areas within the Jefferson and Shelby County school districts are so determined to form their own school districts when taxation revenue and funding already so limited in region.
Let's be honestly, them seems to only happen in areas of both counties where racial and economic diversity seems to be limited at best or non-existent. It's fine to want the best for your children, but the tacit motivation to "separate from them" because you feel like your representative on the existing county school board is not solving the overall problems associated with the quality of education. Actually, the region only has seen growth in the core counties in recent years. The likelihood of seeing any massive exponential growth won't be until either there is a major economic development boom to form from continued pace of intown revitalization or landing a major economic development relocation to the area that will bring many transplants then this whole all of these new suburban school districts is just pointless turf delineations over a limited tax pot.
This whole region is Birmingham and nobody from elsewhere cares about who your local mayor and council or school board member is when there is little to non-existent regional cooperation. I mean yeah it's good to be all about local control, but there is a certain point when it just becomes counterproductive and counter-intuitive for the region's future and reputation to potential corporate recruiters and location scouts...
I think it's a fair question, and I'll volunteer to be first stepping into the minefield. Wish me luck.
I personally believe that there needs to be some kind of unified metropolitan government. Right now we pay the price for umpteen police departments, fire departments, city jails, city clerks, dispatchers, and the rest of the things that come with creating any civic government whether it's Birmingham, Hoover, or Brighton. We lived in Avondale for 14 years, and never had a problem with Birmingham city services. When called, they came quickly and worked professionally. I get tired of paying 10% sales tax because some idiots live in fear.
So what's the thing that likely holds it all back? The terrible Birmingham School System, which is awful by any possible yardstick. There simply was no way I was going to send my kids to Woodlawn. My neighbors, an African-American architect and his wife, sure as heck weren't either. They scrimped to send their two children to John Carroll. As she put it, "Put my son or daughter in that school? There is no way I'll do that."
When it came time for our children to hit middle school, we could either pay through the nose to send our three kids to Altamont or John Carroll or we could skedaddle to Mountain Brook. Not because we wanted our kids to attend some lily-white school system (Heck, our kids' parochial school was integrated), but because homes of a certain square footage in Mountain Brook are actually less expensive than Homewood. And we weren't moving to Vestavia and Hoover because my wife wanted a short commute. So given the choice between Mountain Brook and Homewood, Mountain Brook won out.
Times change, attitudes change, and the new generation of Birminghamsters are looking at being back in town. But Birmingham's school system is so execrable that middle-class whites and African Americans alike wouldn't put their kids in it on a bet. And, to be truthful, the JeffCo School system isn't much better. I mean, Homewood, Vestavia, and Hoover all have considerable diversity in their school systems. Minority enrollment in Homewood is 41% and it hasn't hurt their academics one whit. Hoover is 42%. Vestavia is 12%, which isn't as high, but not inconsiderable either. All three are school systems that enjoy high achievement and a high degree of harmony. Looking around the area, Spain Park is 35%, Trussville is 16%. And none of those five school systems are seeing any exodus by white families. So I think simply ascribing Gardendale's desire to form their own school system to racism, especially when 28% of their current student body is a minority, doesn't add up.
So if we want to have some unified civic government, we're going to have to work around the school system issue, chiefly because the Birmingham School System is a mess. I think any rational person could see the merits of achieving economies of scale through combining public safety and clerical functions. But consolidation is an effort that would die on the vine if you messed with schools.
There. My answer that is bound to make no one happy.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 08-13-2017 at 01:25 PM..
Birmingham school systems is no different than any other inner city school system in america. Most major cities experience the same problems. The so called better school systems are in the suburbs. Yet people constantly moved within the city limits of these other cities without hestitation. Name a major city in america that has this many school systems with 25 miles of it. Not many. Then in birmingham situation, the only majority black city in the state of "ALABAMA", doesn't have enough involvement of other races to get people attention. Who's to say birmingham city schools students don't get a good education. Just because your child attend a good school, don't mean he/she is going to be successful in life. But yeah I know....Well at least I'm giving he/her a chance by attending a great school. That's what get me as tho attending a city school, your child is doom for life. If your child wants to learn, they will put their mind to it and become great regardless of the school system situation. In 2016...birmingham high schoool graduates accounted for 30 millions in ACADEMIC scholarship money from colleges. To me that lets me know just how hard those students wanted to learn in order to have a chance because nobody is giving them any hope because of being label a bad system. Those students hear that talk all the time around birmingham. So I definitely tip my hats to them. Keep striving because I know it's tough when you have people with their foot on your back constantly giving you no hope. So birmingham is no different than any other major city...the only different is people in other cities or those who moved there gives that particular city a chance with their involvement. Here in this city, its too many people with the "I like birmingham" mentality....We just don't have enough "I LOVE" birmingham mentality from people.
There is only so much a school system can do when the parents are the way they are. No amount of money can possibly fix that. Study after study has shown that as long as an adequate level of funding is met, anything beyond that offers diminishing returns. You could give Birmingham schools $1 billion and it would fix almost nothing. Not as long as the parents do not work, the parents have no education themselves, the parents normalize violence/gangs/drugs, the parents purposely keep children out of schools, the parents actively degrade things like reading, studying, and learning. All of those things happen every single day to children of Birmingham city schools.
Then because of those factors and others that I don't have the finger strength to type, almost any Birmingham school system product who gets a scholarship or is able to overcome the challenges and get an education, darts to Atlanta an hour after turning 18. As long as the semi-educated and above Birmingham children have moving to Atlanta or New Orleans as their sole dream after high school, there is little hope for the future.
There is only so much a school system can do when the parents are the way they are. No amount of money can possibly fix that. Study after study has shown that as long as an adequate level of funding is met, anything beyond that offers diminishing returns. You could give Birmingham schools $1 billion and it would fix almost nothing. Not as long as the parents do not work, the parents have no education themselves, the parents normalize violence/gangs/drugs, the parents purposely keep children out of schools, the parents actively degrade things like reading, studying, and learning. All of those things happen every single day to children of Birmingham city schools.
Then because of those factors and others that I don't have the finger strength to type, almost any Birmingham school system product who gets a scholarship or is able to overcome the challenges and get an education, darts to Atlanta an hour after turning 18. As long as the semi-educated and above Birmingham children have moving to Atlanta or New Orleans as their sole dream after high school, there is little hope for the future.
Let me get this straight....you criticized city school students because of the parents actions and then you sort of give credit to those "semi-educated", whatever that means, ones that leave after high school. So those half-way educated students now is a problem because they leave the city. The same can be said of suburbs kids as well that leave the metro area. Come on now, you just can't be thinking on a one way street. It was like that for a long time, but alot of them now go off to college and get away only to come back because of the vibe the city has now. Can you blame them if they did left. Why stay when you will be judged because you went to a birmingham city school. There are many reasons besides job opportunties why kids leave. Some want more entertainment, bigger city ammenties, live away from the city, who knows. They move to another city or the suburbs or to some rual area and get the same type of work they could get in birmingham. They just prefer to be there..nothing wrong with that.
Let me get this straight....you criticized city school students because of the parents actions and then you sort of give credit to those "semi-educated", whatever that means, ones that leave after high school. So those half-way educated students now is a problem because they leave the city. The same can be said of suburbs kids as well that leave the metro area. Come on now, you just can't be thinking on a one way street. It was like that for a long time, but alot of them now go off to college and get away only to come back because of the vibe the city has now. Can you blame them if they did left. Why stay when you will be judged because you went to a birmingham city school. There are many reasons besides job opportunties why kids leave. Some want more entertainment, bigger city ammenties, live away from the city, who knows. They move to another city or the suburbs or to some rual area and get the same type of work they could get in birmingham. They just prefer to be there..nothing wrong with that.
My point is that school quality has nothing to do with location, municipality, and little to do with money beyond a certain point. It has to do with the voters and parents in that district. Thus, metro consolidation and people choosing to live inside Birmingham are so important. It would literally only take about 20,000 educated, caring voters to completely overhaul the Birmingham school system and city government. Look at the voter turnout after next week's election. The people who lament Birmingham as a "lost cause", or whine that they can't live there because of the schools, do not realize just how quickly Birmingham could be changed. It is a perfect example of a city that can be changed - low voter turnout, voter apathy, relatively small population relative to the metro.
I am sure plenty of the frequent posters are aware of the constant balkanization of the region's school districts (which is similar to the municipal governments) yet the region core has only seen marginal growth in recent years. So let have an open and honest discussion about the real reasons why so certain areas within the Jefferson and Shelby County school districts are so determined to form their own school districts when taxation revenue and funding already so limited in region.
Let's be honestly, them seems to only happen in areas of both counties where racial and economic diversity seems to be limited at best or non-existent. It's fine to want the best for your children, but the tacit motivation to "separate from them" because you feel like your representative on the existing county school board is not solving the overall problems associated with the quality of education. Actually, the region only has seen growth in the core counties in recent years. The likelihood of seeing any massive exponential growth won't be until either there is a major economic development boom to form from continued pace of intown revitalization or landing a major economic development relocation to the area that will bring many transplants then this whole all of these new suburban school districts is just pointless turf delineations over a limited tax pot.
This whole region is Birmingham and nobody from elsewhere cares about who your local mayor and council or school board member is when there is little to non-existent regional cooperation. I mean yeah it's good to be all about local control, but there is a certain point when it just becomes counterproductive and counter-intuitive for the region's future and reputation to potential corporate recruiters and location scouts...
This could apply to anything in Birmingham area. It's the main reason we are stuck when it comes to population and economic growth in the Jefferson and Shelby Counties and the rest of the metro area. At the current rate it will take 50-60 years just to reach a metro population of 1.5 million, nearly 100 to reach the 2 million mark.
Economic growth is just as bad, when was the last time there was an announcement of a company bringing thousands of high paying jobs to this county? Hasn't happened in my life time and I'm 36. Yet we celebrate another Publix opening in SW Bham as if M-B just announced they are building another plant there.
The rebirth of downtown is great, but how many living wage jobs will it create? What about the surrounding neighborhoods? What is the plan for the 30% of Birmingham residents living under the poverty level? Why has the growth of this metro been stagnant while the rest of region is booming?
Birmingham is basically what Atlanta was in 1960-70 in size but at least they were still growing, while we have been sitting at 1.1 million and flat job growth for 15 years.
As Trump would say....SAD!!
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