I-422 northern beltline.... (Birmingham, Bessemer, Gardendale: house, cost, assess)

[bhamblazer]

Originally Posted by TimCity2000

agree with steveklein... for me, it's all the other things that could've been done with that money (from a transportation standpoint) that seem more beneficial.

Agreed. I-65 from University Blvd to Hwy 31 in Vestavia badly needs to be repaved in each direction.

[jero23]

Originally Posted by bhamblazer

Agreed. I-65 from University Blvd to Hwy 31 in Vestavia badly needs to be repaved in each direction.

The type of rehab that concrete slab type of pavement for I-65 would take at least 6 months on a low end because they would have to crush and re-cement each slab in both directions along that stretch. ALDOT and RPCGB/Birmingham MPO should be prioritizing this particular corridor because this is a major freeway/gateway into the City. However, I believe both parties are sitting on this because they want to place high-occupancy toll (HOT) lanes along I-65 as a way to pay for its increased capacity and providing some form of high occupancy vehicles (HOV) lanes.

[cherokee48]

Speaking of the beltline here are a couple of very recent articles about where it stands:
Jefferson County looks to resume work on Northern Beltline
https://www.wvtm13.com/article/jeffe...tline/28668011

Want a beltline, Jeffco? Make it a toll road
https://www.al.com/news/2019/08/want...toll-road.html

I'm not against it, but it certainly could be done better. Ideally I-422 could have a similar economic and development impact on northern and western Jefferson county that I-459 did for Hoover and Southern Jefferson county. The rub is it is much too long specifically the eastern portion between I-65 and Argo. It is going to take too long to complete at around 30+ years, and too expensive to have to wait for so long IMO. The terminus should be at I-59/I-459 interchange around Trussville/Huffman creating a contiguous beltline rather than running so far north and east. From what I recall the route was driven by Drummond and US Steel which stand to make a lot of money from land sales. However if this was the only feasible route due to ROW or land conditions (which I doubt) I understand and prefer it to happen.

[mcalumni01]

Originally Posted by cherokee48

Speaking of the beltline here are a couple of very recent articles about where it stands:
Jefferson County looks to resume work on Northern Beltline
https://www.wvtm13.com/article/jeffe...tline/28668011

Want a beltline, Jeffco? Make it a toll road
https://www.al.com/news/2019/08/want...toll-road.html

I'm not against it, but it certainly could be done better. Ideally I-422 could have a similar economic and development impact on northern and western Jefferson county that I-459 did for Hoover and Southern Jefferson county. The rub is it is much too long specifically the eastern portion between I-65 and Argo. It is going to take too long to complete at around 30+ years, and too expensive to have to wait for so long IMO. The terminus should be at I-59/I-459 interchange around Trussville/Huffman creating a contiguous beltline rather than running so far north and east. From what I recall the route was driven by Drummond and US Steel which stand to make a lot of money from land sales. However if this was the only feasible route due to ROW or land conditions (which I doubt) I understand and prefer it to happen.

Too many residential and business throughout that area around.. Edward Lake Road trussville, huffman, centerpoint, apple valley, sun valley, north tarrant, carson road, fultondale, north roebuck, several other birmingham neighborhoods that are in that area. just impossible to displace that many people and business

[wardamnbham]

Yep. ROW should have been acquired decades ago. WAY too late now.

[cherokee48]

Originally Posted by mcalumni01

Too many residential and business throughout that area around.. Edward Lake Road trussville, huffman, centerpoint, apple valley, sun valley, north tarrant, carson road, fultondale, north roebuck, several other birmingham neighborhoods that are in that area. just impossible to displace that many people and business

Originally Posted by wardamnbham

Yep. ROW should have been acquired decades ago. WAY too late now.

Agreed, that always seemed to be the big hiccup. If they could blast through Red Mountain for the expressway the rough terrain couldn't be that much of an issue so I always looked beyond that. It seems that the only feasible ROW route for the beltline to happen was up around Argo. Had this been undertaken in the 1980's after the completion of I-459 perhaps it could have been completed without going through Argo, that being said I'd prefer it happen. Hopefully the state will get serious about it and spend the money to get it completed as soon as possible and be done with it. The longer they drag their feet construction costs will continue to rise and it will get continue to get more expensive for them to complete.

[Mississippi Alabama Line]

Originally Posted by cherokee48

From what I recall the route was driven by Drummond and US Steel which stand to make a lot of money from land sales.

Archibald said this too and, in my opinion, that's an interesting way to look at it. Looks like he's trying very hard to find problems, that's why he used terms like "Fat Cat Land Owner".

I think it's much more likely that DOT would rather deal with a few land owners, rather than hundreds or thousands. That makes the land farther out, a LOT more attractive. And government always pays fair market value, it's federal law. The landowners will be made whole, as they should, but they will NOT be made rich due to some backroom deal.

There doesn't always have to be a boogeyman. Usually, there isn't.

[cherokee48]

Originally Posted by Mississippi Alabama Line

Archibald said this too and, in my opinion, that's an interesting way to look at it. Looks like he's trying very hard to find problems, that's why he used terms like "Fat Cat Land Owner".

I think it's much more likely that DOT would rather deal with a few land owners, rather than hundreds or thousands. That makes the land farther out, a LOT more attractive. And government always pays fair market value, it's federal law. The landowners will be made whole, as they should, but they will NOT be made rich due to some backroom deal.

There doesn't always have to be a boogeyman. Usually, there isn't.

I think so too, I understand that its not the best option and its expensive but it does seem to be excessive push back towards a city/metro that could benefit from having a completed interstate system. The "Fat Cat Land Owner" comment does give it away. Totally agree with the DOT position as well. It seems that the farther out Argo route is the only feasible route at this time to get it done. The boogeyman in this case was the insistence by state government specifically Wallace that Birmingham would be the last city to have a completed interstate system (as the rumor has it) as an act of political sniping for not voting for him. That boogeyman is long gone and looking at Drummond and US Steel and the future I-422 in such a negative light over this is excessive.

[mcalumni01]

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2...ing-bills.html

And it's getting back started, hopefully for good. Maybe ALDOT can entice whoever is constructing it with a finish early bonus incentive and complete this thing under 10 years

[steveklein]

Originally Posted by mcalumni01

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2...ing-bills.html

And it's getting back started, hopefully for good. Maybe ALDOT can entice whoever is constructing it with a finish early bonus incentive and complete this thing under 10 years

lol? 2054 was the date set some number of years ago and there have been delays since then. So don't expect it finished before 2054.