Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You presumably already know some of the reasons:
- Amazon doesn't treat his employees particularly well
- Amazon drives independent booksellers out of business
- Amazon undermines the tax base in your town
- Amazon eliminates the pleasant social connections of physical bookstores
- Amazon keeps tabs on you
etc.
However, here's something new: Amazon is trying control what you read by trying to steer you to/away from particular books and publishers, which strikes me as contemptible.
Amazon’s secret campaign to discourage customers from buying books by Hachette, one of the big New York publishers, burst into the open on Friday...
Among Amazon’s tactics against Hachette, some of which it has been employing for months, are charging more for its books and suggesting that readers might enjoy instead a book from another author. If customers for some reason persist and buy a Hachette book anyway, Amazon is saying it will take weeks to deliver it.
But I believe in the free market. In a free market, companies that give customers what they want will succeed.
If they don't treat employees well, then employees will keep leaving, and they will eventually have to make changes or keep experiencing high turnover, which is costly.
The only reason independent booksellers go out of business is when they don't cater to customers, giving customers what they want. I buy about 99% of my books online, and lots of other products too. It's because online is convenient. I would love to patronize local businesses, but those business tend to not cater to customers. Local book stores tend to set inconvenient hours. One near me is now closing/ going out of business, and their hours were always 10-6. How could people with full time jobs ever shop there? I only went once when I had a personal day. Now they're closing; oh well.
I also buy books from small "mom & pop" bookstores online. Some of those small mom & pop places sell on amazon; so even though I'm buying ON amazon, I'm not buying FROM amazon. I just bought a rare vintage book from a small store in Arizona via amazon. I'm in PA. What are the chances that that little store would have found someone to buy that obscure book if they weren't on amazon? Maybe the issue is that the small businesses just need to get up to date with what customers need and want?
My actual town is very small, and they have no book stores. There hasn't been a book store in this 2-square mile town in at least 30 years. Even before the internet. So my buying books online is not undermining my town's tax base.
As for the "pleasant social connections," some of us do not require that. I love ordering a book online and having it magically appear on my doorstep a few days later, with no human contact required. Plus, amazon has what I consider a more desirable kind of pleasant social connection: the reader reviews. I can get reviews from tons of other readers on a book before I read it, and I can share my opinions on books likewise. People actually like and respond to what I write, and I respond to what they write. I don't need small talk and chit-chat in a crappy store; I prefer meaningful goal-directed communication about books with other knowledgeable people.
Yes amazon keeps tabs on customers. So does every other retailer. So does the government. So does the library. I don't like it, but there's no reason to single-out amazon with that.
And now with the "steering customers toward books" issue, maybe some people are more easily led. I see suggestions, but it's up to me to look into those suggestions and make my own decisions. I love that the article posted is from the New York Times. Isn't that ironic? Haven't they, for years, steered people toward certain books (and other products) and away from others? Haven't they decided to ignore certain books that sell widely, because of their own agenda? If amazon did make the shipping time longer for certain books, and I was buying one of those books, then they would lose my business if I were in more of a hurry, because, again, it's about what the customer wants. If they said I couldn't get a certain book for 3 weeks, then I'd just buy it from another online retailer who could send it to me in less than a week. Amazon usually has the best price, but if they artificially inflate the price of a given book for whatever reason, I'm just going to buy it on another site.
To me, the anti-Amazon movement is just like the anti-Walmart movement: Let's demonize a successful company because they're successful and they give customers what they want.
But I believe in the free market. In a free market, companies that give customers what they want will succeed.
If they don't treat employees well, then employees will keep leaving, and they will eventually have to make changes or keep experiencing high turnover, which is costly.
The only reason independent booksellers go out of business is when they don't cater to customers, giving customers what they want. I buy about 99% of my books online, and lots of other products too. It's because online is convenient. I would love to patronize local businesses, but those business tend to not cater to customers. Local book stores tend to set inconvenient hours. One near me is now closing/ going out of business, and their hours were always 10-6. How could people with full time jobs ever shop there? I only went once when I had a personal day. Now they're closing; oh well.
I also buy books from small "mom & pop" bookstores online. Some of those small mom & pop places sell on amazon; so even though I'm buying ON amazon, I'm not buying FROM amazon. I just bought a rare vintage book from a small store in Arizona via amazon. I'm in PA. What are the chances that that little store would have found someone to buy that obscure book if they weren't on amazon? Maybe the issue is that the small businesses just need to get up to date with what customers need and want?
My actual town is very small, and they have no book stores. There hasn't been a book store in this 2-square mile town in at least 30 years. Even before the internet. So my buying books online is not undermining my town's tax base.
As for the "pleasant social connections," some of us do not require that. I love ordering a book online and having it magically appear on my doorstep a few days later, with no human contact required. Plus, amazon has what I consider a more desirable kind of pleasant social connection: the reader reviews. I can get reviews from tons of other readers on a book before I read it, and I can share my opinions on books likewise. People actually like and respond to what I write, and I respond to what they write. I don't need small talk and chit-chat in a crappy store; I prefer meaningful goal-directed communication about books with other knowledgeable people.
Yes amazon keeps tabs on customers. So does every other retailer. So does the government. So does the library. I don't like it, but there's no reason to single-out amazon with that.
And now with the "steering customers toward books" issue, maybe some people are more easily led. I see suggestions, but it's up to me to look into those suggestions and make my own decisions. I love that the article posted is from the New York Times. Isn't that ironic? Haven't they, for years, steered people toward certain books (and other products) and away from others? Haven't they decided to ignore certain books that sell widely, because of their own agenda? If amazon did make the shipping time longer for certain books, and I was buying one of those books, then they would lose my business if I were in more of a hurry, because, again, it's about what the customer wants. If they said I couldn't get a certain book for 3 weeks, then I'd just buy it from another online retailer who could send it to me in less than a week. Amazon usually has the best price, but if they artificially inflate the price of a given book for whatever reason, I'm just going to buy it on another site.
To me, the anti-Amazon movement is just like the anti-Walmart movement: Let's demonize a successful company because they're successful and they give customers what they want.
Well said. I hardly hear anyone criticizing Apple for example, which is not that much better than Amazon. If anything, Apple and some big publishers recently were found guilty by Dept Of Justice for trying to fix book prices to beat Amazon. Apple is still insisting that they did nothing wrong. But Apple is hip among the liberals so they'll get a pass more often than not.
Also, regarding treating their employees badly, not sure about that either. I know they pay top dollar for their software developers. My firm has lost quite a few candidates to Amazon since we can't complete with their salary.
One more thing I love about Amazon, they have the best customer service in the industry. Period.
I have friends who worked for Amazon. It isn't just that Amazon doesn't treat its employees well. It's downright Dickensian. Amazon isn't just a cut throat business environment. It's Evil. Even pirates let the crew share in the booty. Amazon doesn't even have that much integrity.
Mark, an idle question, straying off to a tangent: Do you have and opinion on which company has tended to be worse toward its employees, Amazon or Walmart?
Happy In Wyoming - sorry, but that's absurd to tie Amazon attitudes to breadth of reading. I've already provided several reasons that I despise Amazon, yet I firmly believe that people should read as broadly as possible. Also, by the way, although their larger logo is indeed writen "amazon," everywhere else, not only in the media, but on Amazon's own website, it's capitalized. Check out their home page if you don't believe me.
Happy In Wyoming - sorry, but that's absurd to tie Amazon attitudes to breadth of reading. I've already provided several reasons that I despise Amazon, yet I firmly believe that people should read as broadly as possible. Also, by the way, although their larger logo is indeed writen "amazon," everywhere else, not only in the media, but on Amazon's own website, it's capitalized. Check out their home page if you don't believe me.
I checked the text; you are correct; it's rather embarassing. I find it hard to believe that I have just ignored this every time I've been on the Amazon website, something I do several times each day.
To address your other point, the breadth of my own reading is directly related to Amazon's policies and to their marketing programs. Simply put, I wouldn't know that many books even exist if Amazon didn't carry them; I find them in the "Recommended for you" section. That one feature alone has provided me with an extraordinary amount of reading delight.
There's another Amazon policy that I find a wonder: Amazon actually shows marketplace sellers' prices when these are less than Amazon prices. I just ordered a book that Amazon had priced at $21.73 that I could have had within forty-eight hours with free shipping since I have Prime. However, the web page informed me that new copies were availble for $6.73. I checked and found two copies at that price; both of the sellers had 99% satisfaction rates. I chose the closer seller in hopes that it might arrrive a bit sooner since it's not a Prime shipment. My total with shipping was $10.72, less than half of Amazon's already discounted price. After I placed my order I received an invitation to read the first part for free on my Kindle Paperwhite.
Shall we discuss reviews? Over the years I've made hundreds if not thousands of decisions based on these. I may buy a book because of negative reviews, having learned how to decipher these long before the advent of Amazon. Imagine going into a local bookstore and encountering a clerk who tells you that a book stinks. An Amazon product review may. They have employees who actually read for pleasure.
Amazon has extended their product line to include all sorts of things besides books. All sorts of interesting comestibles and other delights now appear on my front porch.
One of my strongest interests is reading older technical works since I love the history of technology. Before Amazon and epecially before Kindle finding these books was strictly catch-as-catch-can. It's very different today. A few months ago I purchased a Kindle book dealing with the manufacture of pyrotechnic devices. Since the work is over a century old it's full of obsolete names, but I didn't need to continually refer to reference books. The link in my Kindle to a dictionary and to Wikipedia served me well for 90% of my needs.
Amazon has changed the life of the bibliophile; the new life is an unmitigated improvement. If the internet is the informtion superhighway Amazon is the proper vehicle, a vehicle that combines the best features of a Ferrari and a heavy truck but with no compromise.
Mark, an idle question, straying off to a tangent: Do you have and opinion on which company has tended to be worse toward its employees, Amazon or Walmart?
Neither are going to win any awards. That's like the old question: "Would you rather drown or burn to death?"
amazon (it's properly all lower case) has consistently refused to censor politically unpopular works. If it's in print or often out of print amazon has it and will sell it. Could anyone make that claim about any other bookseller, particularly local booksellers? I recall one worthy in Evergreen, Colorado who broadcast to all that she would carry nothing on weapons in her store.
It's irrelevant whether you buy works on arms. But do you wish to deal with sellers who may not wish you to read material that they don't like?
Take the test. Search for any book you wish on amazon, particularly controversial; you'll find it. Search for something obscure and nearly unknown; you'll find it. The only people who hate amazon are either those who preach the doctrine that there are things that people shouldn't read or the sheep who follow that doctrine.
amazon is the intellectual freedom store.
I am perfectly happy with Amazon. Too many small bookstores around here won't sell or even order books by conservative writers such as Ann Coulter or Glenn Beck. They proudly wear their politics on their sleeve and try to censor what I read, so screw 'em, I happily send all my business to Amazon.
I am perfectly happy with Amazon. Too many small bookstores around here won't sell or even order books by conservative writers such as Ann Coulter or Glenn Beck. They proudly wear their politics on their sleeve and try to censor what I read, so screw 'em, I happily send all my business to Amazon.
I'm very happy with Amazon. Cust service is great. I'm prime so get 2nd day shipping, can borrow Kindle books and stream videos, tv shows etc.
Yes amazon tracks you but so does every other retailer web site you've been to.
If employees aren't happy...quit, find another job. When the revolving door of employees starts costing them, and it will they will address the problem.
Mom and Pop bookstores are unheard of where I live and Barnes and Noble and others like them are not mom and pops but chains.
Why would anyone think Amazon employees should share the profits? Being hired to do a job doesn't mean being part owner.
Many companies offered profit sharing, but in the last decade or two many comapnies stopped this, hell many don't even offer 401K matches anymore.
Most of Amazons places are fullfillment centers, people pick and pack orders, not exactly the position one should expect to get $20 an hour for.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
