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Oddly enough, Kinko (Walter) was one of my favorite characters. I did like how Gruen developed this one in that my initial response to the little fellow was mixed, at best. His personality, at first, did absolutely zilch to endear him to me, but his handicap/insecurity had some effect in that I couldn't detest him, outright. I call it the 'pity factor.'
But as the story moved along, and he could let his guard down, so to speak, and you could accept him, even with all of his 'warts,' I came to like him. He had sort of made a not half bad life for himself, and Queenie, under horrible circumstances. I was horrified by the red-lighting end of Walter, and felt I had earned the right, as a reader, to call him by his real name, 'befriending' him in some regard.
And what is that old saying? Something along the lines of "anyone who likes dogs can't be half bad?"
Oddly enough, Kinko (Walter) was one of my favorite characters. I did like how Gruen developed this one in that my initial response to the little fellow was mixed, at best. His personality, at first, did absolutely zilch to endear him to me, but his handicap/insecurity had some effect in that I couldn't detest him, outright. I call it the 'pity factor.'
But as the story moved along, and he could let his guard down, so to speak, and you could accept him, even with all of his 'warts,' I came to like him. He had sort of made a not half bad life for himself, and Queenie, under horrible circumstances. I was horrified by the red-lighting end of Walter, and felt I had earned the right, as a reader, to call him by his real name, 'befriending' him in some regard.
And what is that old saying? Something along the lines of "anyone who likes dogs can't be half bad?"
yes i agree....he did have compassion for Camel
I could see it coming but was still upset when Walter & Camel were redlighted..
Some of the greatest gifts come in small packages.
Like both of you, njkate and rdslots, I really did not like or trust Kinko when first meeting him - nor his little dog, Toto - errrr, Queenie. I had the feeling that Kinko was going to be Jake's nemesis in the story.
I felt so touched as I saw all of that animosity that Kinko showed toward Jake begin to melt away with Jake's commitment to make Queenie well again.
I could feel the pride that Walter (now, my friend) had to hold in check to change his feelings toward Jake. It isn't easy for anyone to admit that he is wrong, but for Walter, I think it must have been particularly difficult.
He probably had to fight for his dignity, not so much among his circus family, but from society. Jake represented all the rubes that might have stared or teased someone of Walter's stature. He was a man on the inside, but had to work very hard to prove it because of his outside shell.
It was a goosebump moment to have Jake and Walter united with Queenie as the link between them.
This story was about loyalty, faithfulness and friendship to the end, just as Dr. Seuss's Horton said - "I meant what I said, and I said what I meant... An elephant's faithful - one hundred per cent."
We can say that about many relationships in this story. We had the faithfulness of Jake, Rosie, Camel, Walter, Queenie, Marlena, and others - each in their own way.
This is a wonderful theme of giving up a little pride and gaining a whole lot of respect and faithfulness.
I really grew to love and respect Walter. He was a real man!
(Rdslots, I always heard from my father that "Anyone who likes dogs can't be ALL bad" But, I'd rather settle for someone who is not "half-bad", I think.)
Last edited by gemkeeper; 02-25-2008 at 07:14 PM..
Reason: Punctuation - usually spelling!
I really don't understand the chapter 18, why is August upset did he find out about Marlena and Jacob? What's with the two cups only problem, and the scarves? I really need help, I can't understand it. Thanx in advance.
I really don't understand the chapter 18, why is August upset did he find out about Marlena and Jacob? What's with the two cups only problem, and the scarves? I really need help, I can't understand it. Thanx in advance.
Manuel, it has been a while since I read "Water for Elephants", but I will try to give you a few insights on this event in the tent.
The good fortune of the circus has finally materialized as a result of Jacob realizing that Rosie understands Polish, not English. Once Jacob, Marlena and August work with Rosie on the act speaking the Polish commands that she understands, Rosie's genius and talent becomes apparent.
This wonderful turn around for the show blossoms when Marlena and Rosie's act is such a hit with the audience. August is thrilled with all that they have accomplished in a couple of weeks work preparing the act, but he is, nonetheless, a very jealous husband when it is obvious that there is a strong friendship between Marlena and Jacob.
Marlena has prepared a surprise celebration of their triumph for August in the tent for the same evening. August is already imagining that there is a relationship between Marlena and Jacob and when he enters the tent, he thinks that he has surprised Jacob and Marlena by catching them in the act of having an affair.
There are three glasses, but of course, the third one is sitting on the table waiting to be filled with champagne. August does not notice the third glass and assumes that only Marlena and Jacob were drinking champagne following their romantic time together.
August's eyes focuses on the silk scarves dangling out of Marlena's bureau drawer and accuses her of using the scarves to seduce Jacob. (You have seen films, I'm sure, of female dancers using scarves and veils in a provocative way to excite the men watching them dance. This was what August in his jealous hysteria thought was happening that evening in the tent with Marlena and Jacob.)
The irony of this twisted scene is that Marlena is excited about the show's success and August's triumph. She plans an exciting evening with a delicious dinner with her husband to please him. August, because of his jealous torment and suspicion, sees it as a lovers' tryst between his wife and another man, and poor innocent Jacob, has no idea of what is happening at all.
August's untrusting mind drives him to attack Jacob, and later, strike Marlena thinking she has been unfaithful. He has sealed the fate of his marriage with Marlena all because of some carelessly arranged scarves and third glass sitting on the table out of view.
Dorothy Dix, the journalist, wrote: "The jealous bring down the curse they fear upon their own heads." This was certainly true of August. The thing he feared the most was losing his dear Marlena. His jealousy brought his fear down upon his own head.
Please let me know what you think of this book, Manuel. It has been almost 2 years since we had discussed it and I hope that many others have read it, as well.
It has been almost 2 years since we had discussed it and I hope that many others have read it, as well.
It's been over two years since I've read it and it's one of my favorite books. I gave it to my 80-year old mother to read after I finished it and despite the fact that she called me a couple of times upset about the story, she ended up enjoying it. A great read.
It's been over two years since I've read it and it's one of my favorite books. I gave it to my 80-year old mother to read after I finished it and despite the fact that she called me a couple of times upset about the story, she ended up enjoying it. A great read.
CA4Now, I see that you joined C-D a couple of months after we finished the Book Club discussion of Water for Elephants. I wish you could have participated.
I can identify with your mother's reaction to the story. I loved the book also, but it was emotionally draining at times. I glad that you both enjoyed reading it.
It was great to see manuel8's question this past week about one of the chapters. I had to go back and refresh my memory on the chapter he was concerned with. I am now flash-reading it again and love it just as much as the first time.
I, too, re-read Sara Gruen's work this past summer. It is a keeper, setting on the bookshelf in my bedroom. It's a little worn now -- I have lent it to several friends as well.
For me, the work sparked an interest in reading about circuses, in general, and then more specifically, circuses during the depression.
In spite of all of the bad publicity today about circuses and the animals they keep, I have fond memories of going to see the acts in the Big Top with my maternal Grandmother. We shared the month of April for our birthdays, and I'd always treat us to tickets to Ringling Bros. when it came to town as part of a larger festival on the NC coast. The last time she was able to go, it was Grandma Daisy, my three-year-old daughter, and me.
I used to watch the performers and wonder what their lives were like, and here, all these years later, Gruen gives me a glimpse into them.
Late on the discussion, so excuse my notes. I think the characters were well developed for the setting. I tend to think most circus workers didn't let out much of their past lives slip out. I got to know the characters by their relationship with the animals,and how they reacted in situations and how they treated Jacob. It was horrifying to me when I realized Rosie was kissing up to August for her well being. Though it was indeed fantastical that the characters kept the horses, elephant and Bobo,I think the characters couldn't make any other choice. They were so deeply connected to them, they couldn't discard them elsewhere to undergo further abuse. It would have haunted them forever. Of course I always knew Jacob would avoid murder, but I enjoyed seeing how he handled situations to save himself and keep his integrity intact. Does anyone think that Jacob fully understand that he was so loyal to Camel for not only saving his life and securing him with income and showing him the ropes, but also opening up his world to true love and deep friendships with man and animal? I kind of look at the ending as Jacob getting his last hurrah, a heaven of sorts for him.
Manuel, it has been a while since I read "Water for Elephants", but I will try to give you a few insights on this event in the tent.
The good fortune of the circus has finally materialized as a result of Jacob realizing that Rosie understands Polish, not English. Once Jacob, Marlena and August work with Rosie on the act speaking the Polish commands that she understands, Rosie's genius and talent becomes apparent.
This wonderful turn around for the show blossoms when Marlena and Rosie's act is such a hit with the audience. August is thrilled with all that they have accomplished in a couple of weeks work preparing the act, but he is, nonetheless, a very jealous husband when it is obvious that there is a strong friendship between Marlena and Jacob.
Marlena has prepared a surprise celebration of their triumph for August in the tent for the same evening. August is already imagining that there is a relationship between Marlena and Jacob and when he enters the tent, he thinks that he has surprised Jacob and Marlena by catching them in the act of having an affair.
There are three glasses, but of course, the third one is sitting on the table waiting to be filled with champagne. August does not notice the third glass and assumes that only Marlena and Jacob were drinking champagne following their romantic time together.
August's eyes focuses on the silk scarves dangling out of Marlena's bureau drawer and accuses her of using the scarves to seduce Jacob. (You have seen films, I'm sure, of female dancers using scarves and veils in a provocative way to excite the men watching them dance. This was what August in his jealous hysteria thought was happening that evening in the tent with Marlena and Jacob.)
The irony of this twisted scene is that Marlena is excited about the show's success and August's triumph. She plans an exciting evening with a delicious dinner with her husband to please him. August, because of his jealous torment and suspicion, sees it as a lovers' tryst between his wife and another man, and poor innocent Jacob, has no idea of what is happening at all.
August's untrusting mind drives him to attack Jacob, and later, strike Marlena thinking she has been unfaithful. He has sealed the fate of his marriage with Marlena all because of some carelessly arranged scarves and third glass sitting on the table out of view.
Dorothy Dix, the journalist, wrote: "The jealous bring down the curse they fear upon their own heads." This was certainly true of August. The thing he feared the most was losing his dear Marlena. His jealousy brought his fear down upon his own head.
Please let me know what you think of this book, Manuel. It has been almost 2 years since we had discussed it and I hope that many others have read it, as well.
Gemkeeper, Thank you. You clear up my mind. I was so confused, i guess I was just like Jacob, I will continue reading and see how it goes. Again, thanks a lot
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