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Old 03-19-2008, 07:43 PM
 
4,723 posts, read 14,351,393 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tambre View Post
Hi Nanannie,

"It was not a quick process for me. Like a 'dimmer switch" slowly lighting up a room. It begins to feel like one has been hypnotized and are now begining a waking up process. Life begins to take on a different meaning, and everything does have purpose You realize you are far more in control of your reality then you ever realized."

That is just amazing...hopefully I can get there some day.

Tambre
Oh , you will, all it takes is the true desire to KNOW, and thats something I think you have or you dont, its within you, no one can put it there for you. Theres an old ancient saying "When the student is ready, the teacher appears". I am a 'work in progress' and found it really is about the journey. You are not alone
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:32 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
239 posts, read 1,215,565 times
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Hello all...

It's nice to see some 'action' on this thread. I missed Monday's webcast but downloaded it and have started watching it.

I found tambre's reaction / suggestion that possibly what Eckart was describing was in fact a "disassociative disorder" or a "depersonalizatin disorder" very interesting. I can understand why someone might ponder the possibility of there involving psychosis in the mental state described by Eckart.

Again, you need to understand that Eckart came to his 'enlightenment' suddenly. He has described it as happening in one moment. Frankly, for those of us who have sat meditation for hours, days, weeks, months, years on end, who have put in an uncountable length of time practicing various meditations and studying numerous religious and/or spiritual tomes in order to a catch a fleeting moment of 'reality,' if we're lucky, the fact that this guy came to all this in ONE MOMENT is quite irritating! Maddening even. I would love to dismiss him as a psychotic! A nut-case!

I say that in jest, of course, but the truth is, for 99.99 percent of us, the perception of reality that he points to does not happen in one moment but takes years and years of patient practice to even begin developing. Just like nanannie stated, you read books like A New Earth and most likely numerous others, over & over again and slowly but gradually the light comes on (the dimmer-switch: great analogy!). I know people who have practiced meditation for better than forty years and while they are mostly serene, usually at peace with the world and apparently comfortable in their own skins, they are not what anyone would consider 'enlightened.' They still get caught up in the ego, but far less so than the rest of us. The best thing about these individuals is that they don't contribute as much 'misery' to the world at large because of their understanding and their spiritual practice.

The more you let go of things, material things that is, the more you enjoy life. And again, as nanannie says, it is about the process, only you stop seeing various events as a process, or a means to an end, but as the moment-to-moment experience of living wherein you are fully engaged, aware, and responsible for what is happening right here and now. And that is based on what you are actually doing right here and now, rather than reacting to a situation/event because of a past event or memory, or a future desire. You stop trying to control things, to change things. The simple but common statement/prayer, "Let Go and Let God," points to this.

This is what Eckhart demonstrates. Watching him, don't you feel the joy he is experiencing, just sitting there, talking with Oprah? I do. I just love to watch him, his face, his little giggle, his twinkling eyes. He's very much like the Dalai Lama in that regard. Giggles a lot! I think that's because they really do get the 'cosmic joke'! Me?

As stmaarten pointed out (which warrants my repeating I hope) all of what he talks about, the reality at which he points, has been talked about and pointed at by many other teachers, albeit with different words based on cultural differences. One can easily pick up the influence of Buddhism in Eckhart's talks. In fact, everything he talks about is essentially stated in the Buddha's Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path.

I will tell you from my own experience that the 'reality' to which Eckhart is attempting to lead us, is a place where one is fully alive, not disassociated, with life/living. One feels tuned in and at peace with all that exists in that ongoing moment called "now", and in that ongoing moment, one comes to understand (not intellectually, but in a very primal way) eternity or the infinite. In one moment you may become convinced of life eternal. Maybe not in the conceptualized way you thought about or were taught about, like heaven & hell kind of stuff, but in a primal, fully experiential way. And in that one moment, the major fear of living, i.e., death, dissolves.

If anyone is fortunate enough to briefly experience the cessation of the mental noise (self-talk, thinking, planning, judging, etc.) that goes on in our heads nonstop to glimpse this, then one will understand what Eckhart speaks about in his books and in this webcast. But unlike Eckhart, one probably won't be so lucky to exist in that 'non-attached to thinking' state of being for very long. However once you glimpse it, even if you don't regain another glimpse for years to come, you will finally and forever understand the reality to which he points. You may also feel the frustation in trying to describe it with 'mere words' to others.

Forget that! You will never be able to describe it. It is beyond all humanly-possible description. I see Eckhart struggling for the words to explain it, and he does an excellent job, but for many, it's still beyond comprehension.

What I love about A New Earth is Eckhart's attempt to show how our individual states of mind, which are essentially our controlling egos, have contributed en masse to create the mess this world is now in. He shows a way out, a way of changing, a way that is accessible to every individual. That is, if there are enough people interested in changing. Obviously, a lot of people are interested in at least considering this change. I think Oprah said that something like 2-million people have logged on, or downloaded, the webcast each week. That's amazing. But how many of those 2-million will CONTINUE to work on themseleves after the webcast is over? Will this have a lasting affect?

I hope so. I'm doing my part, and I can see from these posts that many here are doing their share. That's promising.

Have a great "now" everyone (I love that line, tambre!).
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:37 PM
 
1,800 posts, read 5,285,973 times
Reputation: 735
Quote:
Originally Posted by furyu View Post
Hello all...

It's nice to see some 'action' on this thread. I missed Monday's webcast but downloaded it and have started watching it.

I found tambre's reaction / suggestion that possibly what Eckart was describing was in fact a "disassociative disorder" or a "depersonalizatin disorder" very interesting. I can understand why someone might ponder the possibility of there involving psychosis in the mental state described by Eckart.

Again, you need to understand that Eckart came to his 'enlightenment' suddenly. He has described it as happening in one moment. Frankly, for those of us who have sat meditation for hours, days, weeks, months, years on end, who have put in an uncountable length of time practicing various meditations and studying numerous religious and/or spiritual tomes in order to a catch a fleeting moment of 'reality,' if we're lucky, the fact that this guy came to all this in ONE MOMENT is quite irritating! Maddening even. I would love to dismiss him as a psychotic! A nut-case!

I say that in jest, of course, but the truth is, for 99.99 percent of us, the perception of reality that he points to does not happen in one moment but takes years and years of patient practice to even begin developing. Just like nanannie stated, you read books like A New Earth and most likely numerous others, over & over again and slowly but gradually the light comes on (the dimmer-switch: great analogy!). I know people who have practiced meditation for better than forty years and while they are mostly serene, usually at peace with the world and apparently comfortable in their own skins, they are not what anyone would consider 'enlightened.' They still get caught up in the ego, but far less so than the rest of us. The best thing about these individuals is that they don't contribute as much 'misery' to the world at large because of their understanding and their spiritual practice.

The more you let go of things, material things that is, the more you enjoy life. And again, as nanannie says, it is about the process, only you stop seeing various events as a process, or a means to an end, but as the moment-to-moment experience of living wherein you are fully engaged, aware, and responsible for what is happening right here and now. And that is based on what you are actually doing right here and now, rather than reacting to a situation/event because of a past event or memory, or a future desire. You stop trying to control things, to change things. The simple but common statement/prayer, "Let Go and Let God," points to this.

This is what Eckhart demonstrates. Watching him, don't you feel the joy he is experiencing, just sitting there, talking with Oprah? I do. I just love to watch him, his face, his little giggle, his twinkling eyes. He's very much like the Dalai Lama in that regard. Giggles a lot! I think that's because they really do get the 'cosmic joke'! Me?

As stmaarten pointed out (which warrants my repeating I hope) all of what he talks about, the reality at which he points, has been talked about and pointed at by many other teachers, albeit with different words based on cultural differences. One can easily pick up the influence of Buddhism in Eckhart's talks. In fact, everything he talks about is essentially stated in the Buddha's Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path.

I will tell you from my own experience that the 'reality' to which Eckhart is attempting to lead us, is a place where one is fully alive, not disassociated, with life/living. One feels tuned in and at peace with all that exists in that ongoing moment called "now", and in that ongoing moment, one comes to understand (not intellectually, but in a very primal way) eternity or the infinite. In one moment you may become convinced of life eternal. Maybe not in the conceptualized way you thought about or were taught about, like heaven & hell kind of stuff, but in a primal, fully experiential way. And in that one moment, the major fear of living, i.e., death, dissolves.

If anyone is fortunate enough to briefly experience the cessation of the mental noise (self-talk, thinking, planning, judging, etc.) that goes on in our heads nonstop to glimpse this, then one will understand what Eckhart speaks about in his books and in this webcast. But unlike Eckhart, one probably won't be so lucky to exist in that 'non-attached to thinking' state of being for very long. However once you glimpse it, even if you don't regain another glimpse for years to come, you will finally and forever understand the reality to which he points. You may also feel the frustation in trying to describe it with 'mere words' to others.

Forget that! You will never be able to describe it. It is beyond all humanly-possible description. I see Eckhart struggling for the words to explain it, and he does an excellent job, but for many, it's still beyond comprehension.

What I love about A New Earth is Eckhart's attempt to show how our individual states of mind, which are essentially our controlling egos, have contributed en masse to create the mess this world is now in. He shows a way out, a way of changing, a way that is accessible to every individual. That is, if there are enough people interested in changing. Obviously, a lot of people are interested in at least considering this change. I think Oprah said that something like 2-million people have logged on, or downloaded, the webcast each week. That's amazing. But how many of those 2-million will CONTINUE to work on themseleves after the webcast is over? Will this have a lasting affect?

I hope so. I'm doing my part, and I can see from these posts that many here are doing their share. That's promising.

Have a great "now" everyone (I love that line, tambre!).
Furyu,
I always look forward to reading your posts on this subject. As I was reading your last post, I realized that you seem to have seen the "truth" the "now-ness" or "such-ness", as Tolle describes. Maybe you're not fully aware of it, but you've certainly cleared up a few things for me.
Thank you!
I think it makes sense to read this book more than once, to keep peeling the delusions of our "reality" off more and more. For some it may come in one instant, but for most it takes time to gradually appear.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:42 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
239 posts, read 1,215,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stmaarten View Post
Furyu,
I always look forward to reading your posts on this subject.
Thank you, very much... but, um, only this subject?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stmaarten View Post
As I was reading your last post, I realized that you seem to have seen the "truth" the "now-ness" or "such-ness", as Tolle describes.
Well, if you sit meditation LONG ENOUGH, something is bound to happen. Plus, I had the advantage, I believe, of growing up in a family that was very 'spiritually' aware, in nontraditional ways, although we did go to church on Sundays, albeit a Protestant church that wasn't exactly main stream (Christian Science). I had a wonderful aunt who was nothing less than a fully engaged mystic, travelling around the world all by herself, bringing back tales of incredibly marvelous experiences with yogis and lamas and medicine chiefs. She eventually disappeared, never to return, while on trek in the Himalaya mountains. However, it wouldn't surprise me to have her knock on my door someday, although she'd be over 100 years of age.

Given this DNA I guess, I started in at a very early age questioning, exploring, experimenting. I've spent many decades now practicing meditation and reading and listening to teachers and such. So, yes, I believe I've glimpsed states of consciousness that Eckhart speaks about, and no doubt that's why I haven't had the difficulty getting through this particular book. Still, there is much he speaks about that is new to me, that I know he knows --or rather experiences-- that I haven't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stmaarten View Post
Maybe you're not fully aware of it, but you've certainly cleared up a few things for me.
Wow! I'm delighted to hear that. Thank you for saying so. That's what is so wonderful about these 'forums'... people can get together, discuss things, and learn from one another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stmaarten View Post
Thank you!
No, thank you!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stmaarten View Post
I think it makes sense to read this book more than once, to keep peeling the delusions of our "reality" off more and more. For some it may come in one instant, but for most it takes time to gradually appear.
Absolutely. I think you stated that earlier, the 'peeling of the onion', the layers of reality, and that it is for most of us a slow process. It's a fascinating process though, isn't it?

There are a handful of books I return to over the years. Certain religious texts, of course, but there are a lot of great writings but 'mere' individuals on Buddhism, Zen, the Tao, etc., that have really open up my mind to new ways of perceiving and experiencing life. These writings don't negate or contradict one's own religion, specifically Christianity--as feared/believed by so many who won't go near anything non-Christian. The eastern philosophies can actually enhance one's understanding of their own religion, and expand upon it.

In fact, I think Eckhart's own course of (self) education since the publication of his first book, The Power of Now, to this latest one, has included the studying of or inquiry into many of the Buddha's teachings. I see it much more in A New Earth than I did in his earlier works.

I think the main thing we come away with regardless of who we read or listen to is, that each person must find their own way to 'this.' There is no better or best way; it's very individual. All one needs is the yearning to find 'it' and their own way will become clear.
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Old 03-21-2008, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Not on the same page as most
2,503 posts, read 5,756,450 times
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Hi everyone,

Furyu, I also attended the Christian Science church when I was a kid. Until you mentioned it just now I had never heard it being considered part of the protestant religion. Do you remember the words to the Scientfic Statement of Being..."There is no life, truth, substance, or matter in being. All is infinite wisdom and its infinite manifestation." geeeez I can't remember it. Last summer, two days in a row, two people randomly quoted it to me.

I like some of the ideas CS, and I think it does help to grease the gears to an openness to metaphysical ideas. My mother, who is now 84, has spoken to me of experiencing a "great sense of peace, an all encompassing love, like you are in another dimension". I think she was feeling those moments that you are all talking about, where you "glimpse the consciousness that Eckhart speaks about".

When I try to be "present", and be in the now, it seems to be helping me appreciate things, and perhaps be less fearful, or stronger in the sense that everything is okay, and to stop trying to control everything. (resistance = persistence) Has this been happening to anyone else? Have you experienced any subtle life changes since studying this book? Of course, it is just a momentary feeling, that I am connected to or part of, something much larger than life. All of your ideas are really interesting. Please keep them coming. Tambre
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Old 03-21-2008, 07:12 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
239 posts, read 1,215,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tambre View Post
Hi everyone,
Furyu, I also attended the Christian Science church when I was a kid. Until you mentioned it just now I had never heard it being considered part of the protestant religion.
You're right, tambre. Christian Science, strictly speaking, is not a 'protestant' religion, and no doubt that's why you never heard its association prior to my 'mistaken' one. It would fall under the denomination of Spiritualism, along with Swedenborgianism and the 'New Thought' religions (Religious Science, Unity, etc.) While growing up, I was told that we were "Protestants," mainly to distinguish ourselves as 'not Catholic.' However, there were political reasons for that as well as my father suffered persecution while he was growing up and belonging to that church, which for a time was considered a cult by protestant groups. My dad was born and raised in Boston and attended the First Church of Christ Science, known affectionately as "The Mother Church," which Mary Baker Eddy founded. We also attended that church as a family during the years we lived in the Boston area. Still, in reflecting back to my father's understanding of religion, I doubt that he himself distinguished any categories other than those two, Catholicism and Protestantism. You were either one or the other! But the churches which arose from the Protestant reformation were the Lutherans, Baptists, and Presbyterians, and their various subdenominations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tambre View Post
Do you remember the words to the Scientfic Statement of Being..."There is no life, truth, substance, or matter in being. All is infinite wisdom and its infinite manifestation." geeeez I can't remember it. Last summer, two days in a row, two people randomly quoted it to me.
That's weird! Maybe they were providing you 'protection' which you didn't realize you needed at that time!


I haven't met any Christian Scientists in years, not even here in this small town where I now live which has a Christian Science church. But yes, I remember the Scientific Statement of Being. I was made to memorize it probably at the age of two or three, if not while I was in womb. I constantly heard it chanted any time one of us children sneezed or stubbed a toe! (I exaggerate. ) Years later, in July of 2000 while my mother was dying, I repeated it to her many times in the hope that it would help her transition or at least provide her comfort. It is definitely the 'mantra' of Christian Science. I hope none of you object to my including it here:
There is no life, truth, intelligence, nor substance in matter. All is infinite Mind and its infinite manifestation, for God is All-in-all. Spirit is immortal Truth; matter is mortal error. Spirit is the real and eternal; matter is the unreal and temporal. Spirit is God, and man is His image and likeness. Therefore man is not material; he is spiritual.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tambre View Post
I like some of the ideas CS, and I think it does help to grease the gears to an openness to metaphysical ideas. My mother, who is now 84, has spoken to me of experiencing a "great sense of peace, an all encompassing love, like you are in another dimension". I think she was feeling those moments that you are all talking about, where you "glimpse the consciousness that Eckhart speaks about".
Bless your mother's heart! How fortunate she is to know that kind of peace and love in her life. My mom too was very connected to all things spiritual, and she was a very happy, loving person. This is what one expects religion to bring to people, these qualities of love, peace, acceptance. But too often--especially lately--we see people filled with discord and hatred because of their 'faith.' I don't get that.

Christian Science does indeed have some very powerful ideas and tenents, and I am very grateful to have grown up under its spiritual tutelage. It set the stage for future insights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tambre View Post
When I try to be "present", and be in the now, it seems to be helping me appreciate things, and perhaps be less fearful, or stronger in the sense that everything is okay, and to stop trying to control everything. (resistance = persistence) Has this been happening to anyone else? Have you experienced any subtle life changes since studying this book? Of course, it is just a momentary feeling, that I am connected to or part of, something much larger than life. All of your ideas are really interesting. Please keep them coming. Tambre
There is a Zen saying which you've probably heard, "when you chop wood, chop wood, when you carry water, carry water." Meaning, be with whatever you are doing. Echkart emphasizes this too, in a more contemporary manner. Most of the time when we're doing things, fun stuff like paying bills and balancing our check books, mopping the floor or sitting in traffic, our minds transport us to anywhere but where we are doing what we are doing. Quite understandable because much of what we do --what we HAVE to do (bills, chores, work, etc.)-- is boring, or at least not what we desire to do. But when you focus in on whatever it is you are doing, and really pay attention, that 'doing' takes on a new quality. I dare say that with awareness, or 'presence' as Eckhart calls it, the moment 'glows'. The sense of time is suspended. This may be why you feel less fearful or have a stronger feeling of being 'okay' with everything. Time often creates a feeling of stress, I believe; we're always 'fighting it,' it seems.

I think everyone has experienced this feeling of 'flow', being one with what you are doing, but most often we experience it when we are doing something we love to do, like sports--running, playing tennis, swimming, or playing a musical instrument, or painting/drawing a picture, walking in nature or along the beach. The trick, then, is to figure out how to bring that quality of life to everything you do.

You refer to the saying, "what you resist, persists!' I love that saying because it is soooooo true. But whatever you focus on also persists. So you can really use that 'law of attraction' to your advantage, if you've got the pattern down and can work it to your advantage. I've been trying to do that with the lottery with minor (i.e., puny) success. (Why can't things be easier?)

Well, I've babbled on long enough!

Be well, everyone, and enjoy this first weekend of Spring!
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Old 03-22-2008, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Not on the same page as most
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Furyu,

Thanks for the CS statement of being. It's been a long time since I heard that. Like everyone has been saying, there are many paths, but they all seem to be headed in the same direction (awakened consciousness).

So, possibly for some of us, a non-mainstream religious background has opened us up to this journey. What has been the source/background for you, Nanannie, and St. Maarten and others, to be on this search? Do you think it is just something within some, and not within others? The idea of harmonic vibration, but on a thought level? A sort of Close Encounters of the spiritual kind? lol. Tambre (too much caffeine, sorry)
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:18 AM
 
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I was raised by nuns,tambre, a very Irish Catholic family. I knew there was something 'behind the scenes' in life, and those nuns and their dogmas left much un answered to me. As a child I imagined God like Walt Disney at Disneyland. You see and do all these adventures with characters and scarey rides and fun rides, but there is something brilliant behind it all running the show. Actually I was searching my whole life because I had planned to enter the Convent to be a nun. I dabbled in many things, Theosophy, Occult, Course in Miracles, were starters.Yes, "something' was awaken in me, and my mind/soul hungered for this knowledge, the answers to what is really going on. I could not see life as "thats just how it is", I needed, I demanded answers. Something took over, I was never the same. I eventually ,by miraculous means that I wont go into, found a book by JOEL GOLDSMITH, a one time head reader of the mother church of Christian Science who left CS, holding much respect for it, but fitting in missing peaces that resulted in his having a huge foloowing and this very modest man became a miraculous healer. Reading his books and listening to his tapes, attending a few 'classes' with like minded seekers and it all became clearer for me. The INFINTE WAY , and all Joels other books spoke to me.Not for everyone, but that was a teacher that really spoke to me. Eckhart is more of a teaching of Truths for the masses, wonderful read for me and very clear, but nothing I dont already know. Besides, filling my Consciousness with the likes of Eckhart ,Joel, Wayne Dyer, Depok Chopra, etcetcetc keeps me where I should be and my mind in Peace. Its up to me what I choose to dwell on and hold my attention on. The results are obvious to me. However, Life isnt perfect, I am far from perfect, but when I live and see life thru the eyes of Truth, life and its scarey rides make alot more sense.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Southern, NJ
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I am currently reading The Soprano State by Bob Ingle & Sandy McClure. The sad part about this book is that is non-fiction, it just makes you angry.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Wherabouts Unknown!
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During the past 40 years I've read many books written by the likes of Krisnamurti, Yogananda, Trungpa Rinpoche, Alan Watts, Charan Singh, Ram Dass, the channelled teachings of Abraham, Seth, & Elias, etc, so the material that Tolle addresses is old hat. Yet, he brings a freshness to the whole thing, that is leading to deeper insights for me even as I've read only the first 70 pages of A New Earth. There's something about the guy that really resonates at this time in my life. I'm getting a deeper grasp of what makes the TAT technique so effective, which has enabled me to clear resistance from increasingly deeper levels of my being. I'm also making alot of connections with another book that I'm reading called The Vibrational Universe. I'm continually amazed how all of these teachings have so much in common and how they dovetail so nicely.
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