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Hi. We are a young family with 2 small children not yet in school and we are looking at several properties to buy in the area south of Codman Sq. in Dorchester. However we currently live in Cambridge and we have little to no knowledge about the safety and schools in Dorchester. Would you consider the area between Washington St. and Dorchester Ave. to be safe for a young family? How are the schools?
I wouldn't consider any part of Dorecheter safe, but who knows, there might be pockets. But even in a pocket you have to move through the war zones. As for the schools, you do know you're talking Boston Public Schools here, yes? A school that may have been hghly sought after ten years ago is on a failing list today. Your only hope are the two (sorry, just the two)exam schools and Boston Latin at least isn't all it's cracked up to be. I went through the whole process first grade to BLS graduation with two kids who ended up at Ivy schools and were I to have a chance to do it again I never would.
Last edited by bostonbarney; 07-27-2011 at 07:04 PM..
Reason: Grammar and spelling not up to snuff.
Everyone has a different tolerance for risk and everyone weighs things differently, so I can only speak for myself, but there is no way on earth I'd move to Dorchester with two kids. I do not consider the neighborhood to be safe, nor would I want to send my kids to BPS (even with the chance of going to Boston Latin). I realize not everyone is a suburb person, and it certainly sounds like you prefer the urban environment. If that's the case, I'd look in Jamaica Plain. You're still in BPS, but at least you're in a safer more family-friendly neighborhood. Are you moving out of Cambridge for cost reasons? I'd also suggest Brookline (the part closer in towards Boston) but that is going to run you at least as much as the expensive parts of Cambridge, if not more.
Dorchester is comprised of seventeen distinct neighborhoods, many of which have defined subsections too. (And that's not taking into account how a lot of old-school types still go by parish boundaries.) Most of the sector south of Codman Square and between Washington St & Dot Ave is OK. Some of it is decidedly not. Ashmont Hill is a treasure trove of gorgeous rambling old houses owned and meticulously maintained by "urban pioneers." Go half a block south of Talbot Ave and you'll feel like you've traveled ten times that far. Closer to Milton, Codman Hill is chock full of pre-1950 Colonials as well as some older homes and duplexes + 3-deckas. As is the case with Ashmont Hill, you'll feel like you've gone beyond the few steps you've taken once you leave Dot Ave or Gallivan Blvd. The tree-lined streets are free of litter and kids play happily outside. While Ashmont Hill is predominantly Caucasian (with a not inconsiderable presence of gay households), Codman Hill is more "racially mixed" and family oriented.
Between Codman Hill and Milton lies Dorchester Lower Mills, also diversely populated but a tad bit downscale in terms of home options (except around Old Morton and Manchester St's.) This area lies closer to a public-housing "development" and Mattapan so has more of a sketchy feel. But appearances and vibes can be deceiving since in reality the community's crime rate is quite low.
Streets to avoid include Milton Ave, Bailey, Fuller, Mora, and Fairmount.
The Achilles' heel to any part of Boston is, of course, the abysmal school system. A good many families send the offspring to a parochial or private school, then stay on that track if the kids don't make the cut for BLS or the other exam schools. Tuitions can be daunting - the rationale for footing the bill lies in the fact that "there's no way we could've afforded a house like this in Hingham."
As goyguy says, if you stay south of Talbot, you are mostly in a pretty decent and safe neighborhood. North of Talbot can be a bit sketchy, but will vary block to block.
As for schools, I wouldn't put much stock in the gloom and doom crowd. Admittedly, I live in Roslindale which is not the same zone as Dot, so I can't get into specifics about each school, but my experience with BPS has been overwhelmingly positive. My kids have had great teachers and dedicated principles, access to interesting programming (ie music, art, dance), and are very engaged. My opinion is that the schools are as good as the families.
If you are dedicated to supporting your children, providing them with a healthy, enriching environment, and take an active interest in the school as part of the community, your kids will do just fine. If, on the other hand, you see the school as a place to manage your kids while you work and something that requires no more involvement from you than getting your kid dressed and out the door, they may not do as well.
If you are dedicated to supporting your children, providing them with a healthy, enriching environment, and take an active interest in the school as part of the community, your kids will do just fine. If, on the other hand, you see the school as a place to manage your kids while you work and something that requires no more involvement from you than getting your kid dressed and out the door, they may not do as well.
This is a very good point, and is largely true no matter where you live but especially true in an urban school system.
Only thing I'd add is that peer group influence has a huge impact on a student's success. So, you might be great involved parents and you might live on a nice block in Dorchester. But if your kids are in school with a bunch of other kids whose parents don't feel the same way, it'll be tough.
The people that are generalizing Dorchester to be unsafe, clearly have never been to Dorchester short of driving through it to pick up their car from a tow lot on blue hill ave... Nor is this conclusion fair based on the news' generalization of crime coverage in 'Dorchester'.
First of all, Dorchester really should be considered it's own city. Dorchester is so large, that the rest of Boston's major sections could all fit easily within Dorchester's borders. So when the news broadcasts a stabbing or shooting in Dorchester, they make it seem like the whole area is riddled with crime, which is not the case. Of course there is a lot of violence in several different neighborhoods within Dorchester, and I do not want to pretend that there isn't, but at the same time, Over the Bridge in Savin Hill is in my opinnion safer than, most any other neighborhood in the city.
Boston school systems biggest issue is busing. I believe this to be true because it has deteriorated the community/neighborhood involvement with schools, and makes it very difficult for parental involvement within these schools. If I live in South Boston, why would I want to send my kid to a school in Allston? With dual income families a reality, tehre isn't as much time available to parent effectively, adding a 45 minute commute to cross the city to watch your kids school play just doesn't make sense. Plus, your neighbor next door's kids don't go to your kids school. There's no familiar or at least stunted family involvement because of this. NOT TO MENTION THE COST OF BUSING! Bottom line, in my opinion, the system is broken, and it needs to go.
I would not ever consider sending my kids to Boston Public Schools, not because of the staff and quality of educators, or even facilities. Instead, I'd avoid it because of the student population and lack of parental involvement intrinsicly responsible for the introduction of that said student population into society in general...! But I don't generalize much I realize this is the 21rst centruy and dual income families ar ethe norm, and the fall out from this is the deterioration of the family as we knew it in 1950, but Boston's version of this is much worse than other metropolitan areas due to the cost of living, proliferation of bad practices and government, and a do nothing mayor who cares more aboiut emblazoning his name on city squares than remedying neighborhood issues with in our community.
Thank you everyone for the responses they have been very helpful! Unfortunately there is a tug-of-war going on in my family. My husband wants to stay in the city, he grew up in Cambridge and believes the schools are the very best. However he is assuming the schools are the same as what they were 20+ years ago. Additionally we have a very limited budget to buy and have been out priced out of all of Cambridge, Somerville and the safer areas of the city. If we want to stay within the city we can only afford Dorchester.
GoyGuy- you seem to have details regard specific streets which is definitely helpful. The house we were interested in and in our price point is on Bailey St. What specifically about Bailey St. would make is less desirable? It seemed to be a nice area when we drove by the other week.
Hi. We are a young family with 2 small children not yet in school and we are looking at several properties to buy in the area south of Codman Sq. in Dorchester. However we currently live in Cambridge and we have little to no knowledge about the safety and schools in Dorchester. Would you consider the area between Washington St. and Dorchester Ave. to be safe for a young family? How are the schools?
Many Thanks!
Codman Sq is the Ghetto, condemned to work there for years. Wouldn't recommend it to an enemy. All Boston schools are terrible. Doesn't matter where you live. My GF learned more in Middle school (in the burbs) than I did in High School. If you want a nice place for a Family as it appears you do, stay the hell out of Boston. I lived in West Roxbury which is arguably one of the best neighborhoods in the city, didn't matter because the city still ran the schools. If your already in Cambridge, why not move to Arlington? Nice, Safe, good schools.
GoyGuy- you seem to have details regard specific streets which is definitely helpful. The house we were interested in and in our price point is on Bailey St. What specifically about Bailey St. would make is less desirable? It seemed to be a nice area when we drove by the other week.
Is there an echo in here? Seems I saw another question about this very same street - maybe I did. But if the inquirer was different I'm happy to repeat.
Bailey St's area is one of those very "schizy" ones peculiar to Dorchester, where one block is Nirvana and the very next one is a free-fire zone. Fuller St, parallel to the north, has its place in a Dorchester Hall of Infamy that exists maybe only in my mind. Various streets in different parts of the neighborhood could be in that Hall. During the '70s and '80s especially, they earned glowing write-ups in the Globe for being "urban success stories." Nearly all the homes, even generic 3-deckas, had some sort of neat quirk that gave them extra appeal. The owners were energetic and committed urban pioneers folded in comfortably with longtime residents, and the demographics were multi-shaded. Block parties took place almost every weekend. Boston's "boring broadsheet" lapped that up. I remember when a feature on Fuller St ran, because I happened to know someone who'd bought a house on Fuller and was one of those "energetic and committed urban pioneers." The article was all sweetness and light, with photos of smiling White and Black folks in front of their pretty dwellings and manicured hedges. Not five years after that, the person I was acquainted with had fled the area and kept going until he was clear of Dorchester entirely. Multiple properties on the same block were hitting the market simultaneously, their owners "taking a bath" in selling at a loss.
"What brought that on?" is a question with no pat answer. The likeliest main cause was a spike in juvenile gang violence, spurred on by the introduction of crack and given life by the glamorization of it in movies and popular music. Never distant from a less well-off and far less safe part of Dorchester (the western end of Fuller is one of the first streets east of the Mattapan line), the neighborhood fell prey to a crime spillover. Burglaries and muggings started to occur over and over again. Few are those who are so connected to a community that they'd be willing to endure multiple B & E's along with escalating insurance premiums and being afraid to venture outside. And so slid Fuller St, taking Bailey with it. The irony is that those streets still look neat n' tidy. But I'd walk fast down them by day, and not by night on a bet. YET...a hop skip and a jump south down Dot Ave will bring you to Mercier Ave, a wonderfully shaded street with a few raggedy duplexes at the beginning but appealing suburban-style homes beyond. I'd amble down Mercier at any hour without looking over my shoulder. And Codman Hill (mentioned upthread) could just as easily be Arlington Heights.
Are Roslindale, and Hyde Park's Fairmount Hill, out of the question?
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I realize this is the 21rst centruy and dual income families ar ethe norm, and the fall out from this is the deterioration of the family as we knew it in 1950, but Boston's version of this is much worse than other metropolitan areas due to the cost of living, proliferation of bad practices and government, and a do nothing mayor who cares more aboiut emblazoning his name on city squares than remedying neighborhood issues with in our community.
