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My husband has an opportunity to take one of two promotions this spring and we have made endless pro and con lists and they come up about even every time. We would love to get some input here from locals! We are moving from Seattle, my husband is from London originally (has lived in Seattle with me for the last 5 years). We are attracted to the these two cities for totally opposite reasons which is really frustrating!
Our annual income will be around $150K and our housing budget will be around $400K in either city - Although we intend to rent at first to get a feel for the area. Rental we would like to keep it under $2000 a month to keep saving money!! We are a 30-something family of 3 (hoping to family of 4 in the next few years). We are liberal minded, pretty laid back people that want to find a group of friends for our family and hope to establish a sense of community since we will be living so far from any of our friends and family.
We like the idea of Atlanta because we hear its a family friendly city (or at least suburbs), the cost of living there would allow us to buy our dream home with a big yard in a swim/tennis club setting that seems great to raise kiddos, The weather will be a drastic improvement over Seattle - even with the humidity - just some sun more than 50 days a year would be great! My husband will work near Phipps, so we have looked at homes in the Dunwoody and Buckhead areas, but are also open to further out suburbs like Marietta - but have no idea what kind of areas these are really, any suggestions? of course we are looking for safe, good schools, a community to get involved in, etc like everybody else. My husband liked the idea of using Marta if he can.
We are attracted to Boston because it feels like home to my husband, we like the suburbs closer to the city like Brookline, Newton, Medford, Arlington etc and the feel of the city, but would live an opposite life there than we would in Atlanta, more like a multi family or smaller home and would likely get rid of one of our cars and live more of a compact pedestrian urban lifestyle like we did in London. Of course there is the snow to consider too! But we love love love cape cod and being near it would be a bonus!!! We know we love Boston - I think the biggest concern with choosing Boston is will do we make enough money to be comfortable??
Thanks for any thoughts/ideas to help us make a very big choice here!!!!
I have lived in both areas (currently the metro Boston area - grew up in RI, and went to grad school at Georgia Tech in Atlanta), so I can give you perspectives on them. Several have commented on Boston, so I will focus on Atlanta here.
First, regarding $$$ - You will certainly get more for your money in suburban Atlanta vs. immediate Boston burbs, but mainly in housing. Food costs are actually high in Atlanta (lots of things 'trucked in') compared to Boston. In fact, since moving to Boston, I have saved ~20-25% on food (I am single, but for a family it is likely more). Housing is trickier. The issue is that, for Atlanta, you have to be very selective on the neighborhood because school quality varies dramatically. You mentioned Buckhead - that's a nice upscale area (the area that feeds into North Atlanta High) but the housing prices are much higher than your $400K budget (city taxes are quite high in Atlanta - and for your swim/tennis wants). Other nice neighborhoods like Virginia Highlands or Ansley Park are very pricy as well and not subdivision-driven.
What you will end up having to do is move further north into the northern burbs (Roswell, Alpharetta, John's Creek) to get the good schools and subdivision lifestyle you want. But with that comes with a big price - a horrendous commute. Travel from Alpharetta to Buckhead can easily take 1 hour if not more during rush hour. Even if you consider Marietta - which would stretch your budget for East Cobb, which has the best school system in the state - your husband is looking at a 1 hr commute - each way - and 1.5-2x that on Friday. People who live and work in Boston complain about traffic, but the traffic is nothing like that on the Perimeter in Atlanta or on GA 400 or I-75. You will be spending a lot of time in traffic from the burbs to the city, and public transit is almost non-existent outside of limited MARTA lines within Atlanta.
The best housing for the money is south of the city in Fayette and Coweta Counties, but then the commute issue goes up dramatically. I have a buddy who got married and moved to Newnan. His wife works in Buckhead. Her commute is 1-1.5 hours. But he has a nice 'newer' home in a golf course community and paid ~$225K for it.
As mentioned, Atlanta suburbs are quite conservative, especially north and south of the city. Immediate suburbs (Smyrna, parts of Marietta, Chamblee, Norcross) are more liberal because of higher minority populations. But once you get further north in Cobb, Fulton, or Gwinnett Counties, it is a whole other world. Very suburban and quite conservative.
Plus, with Atlanta, be prepared for long, very humid springs and summers. I know you want more sun - but trust me, you will wish for rain in the middle of July. You WILL be running your AC 24/7 from May through early September. Utility costs are also quite high down there. For my 2-bed apartment (~1000 sq ft), our monthly electric bill in the summer was on average $120.00 per month. That was last year, and rates have increased 10-20% since then. Water in the city of Atlanta is also very high, partly because of antiquated pipes and the other part because of the 'water wars' going on with Alabama and Florida. And that was for a place with one floor and 8' ceilings. You look into a house with cathedral ceilings and 2x that area, and the price rises dramatically. Gas rates are also high if you get gas heat/cooking.
There are two different issues. I'd say $150K should be fine to live well in the Boston area with the possible exception of some of the ultra-expensive areas. On the other hand, your $400K housing budget will go a lot farther in Atlanta than here. In that income range, if you want to live in or near Boston, I'd up the housing budget once you look to buy. Depending on where you go, there are some large (Boston large, maybe not Atlanta large) and very nice homes in some suburban towns in the 500's. As you get farther from Boston, even lower. If you're OK with the condo in the two-family house, or things like that, as you've indicated, you can do fine here, but it certainly won't be the (tacky) 4,000 square foot house the same money gets you in Atlanta.
The yearly salary of $150K is great and should contribute to a nice lifestyle, Boston or Atlanta.
I assume you're limiting your housing budget to $400K, so as to be able to survive the layoff of one spouse without losing your home or pulling your kids out of private school? If so, I think that's a good strategy in this economic climate. With your salary you could probably increase your housing budget, but God help you if one of you gets laid off...
Now that we got the finances out of the way, everything else comes down to "lifestyle" - exactly how do you want to live your life? If you want to live in the central core of Boston, the most desirable and walkable areas such as Back Bay, South End, Beacon Hill, Bay Village, these areas are not conducive to single-family homes in move-in condition for less than 7 figures. It's not gonna happen, and no amount of searching will turn up a hidden gem. Your only option would be to find an absolute wreck of a brownstone and spend a couple years (and a few hundred grand, and all your evenings and weekends) renovating. If you have one kid now and want another soon, sweat equity is probably not what you're looking for...
If you are dead set on living in these areas and want move-in condition, you will be limited to a "condo," which will mean a floor or two within a brownstone. You may not have yard access, you may not have roof-deck access, this is where you will need to spend a lot of time searching until you find one that really fits your style. Think of this as the "Manhattan" lifestyle - you're kids don't have a yard, but they play in local parks. You'll raise a couple of very streetwise kids, which is not necessarily a bad thing. Donald Trump doesn't have a yard, yet he raised several kids! LOL!
For the most part, my comments on the central core of Boston also apply to the most desirable areas of Cambridge as well - the closer to Harvard Square, the more desirable and expensive. Cambridge in general is a tiny, congested-feeling, mismatch of 1-block long streets going in every direction - it tires me out just thinking about it. Searching in Cambridge will be an exhaustive experience, so plan to take your time.
If you get away from the central core of Boston and Cambridge, you could find walkable areas in father flung parts of Boston proper (Dorchester by the Red Line, Southie close to the Red Line, Allston/Brighton, Jamaica Plain, etc. But you won't be walking to the Esplanade or downtown Boston. And you still might not have a yard.
So, give us a heads up on the lifestyle you're looking for...
I should say that your 150K salary and 400K housing budget will go farther in Atlanta, but there are plenty of communities in the metro Boston area that have <400K homes; you would be priced out of only the most exclusive towns ( Brookline, Lincoln, Lexington, Concord, some parts of Newton, etc).
Atlanta has the high summer temps, whle Boston has the colder winters, with a fairly decent amount of snow ( but the temps aren't extremely low--this isn't Minneapolis)...
Although I'm not trying to push Boston too much, I must ask: who needs a 4000 sq ft house for only 3-4 people??? Quite a waste...
Although I'm not trying to push Boston too much, I must ask: who needs a 4000 sq ft house for only 3-4 people??? Quite a waste...
Let me highjack this thread for just a moment... "Need" has very little to do with it. "Want" is what drives the creation of 4000 sq ft homes.
And our economy historically has driven us in that direction. Take two families A and B. Family A buys a small 3-bdrm cottage for $200K, family B buys a large mcmansion for $500K. Fast forward to retirement. Family A sells cottage for $400K and moves to a 2-bdrm condo in a warmer climate. Family B sells mcmansion for $1.2M and moves to golf course community.
Family B has created wealth that can be passed on to future generations. Family A "did the right thing" (greener, less consumption), but has much less to pass on. If future generations continue to do the same thing, Family B will continue to outstrip (financially) Family A, and the difference will grow with each generation.
But we love love love cape cod and being near it would be a bonus!!! We know we love Boston - I think the biggest concern with choosing Boston is will do we make enough money to be comfortable??
If you know you'll love Boston then go with your gut. It's not about how big your house is or your acreage. It's about being around the right kinds of people, people you feel comfortable with, the foods, the smells, and of course good schools for your children. You'll make do with lesser material things if need be. I live on the Cape and while most people would probably think this was a lousy idea, why not look in Sandwich or Mashpee and commute up to Boston? Best of luck!
Let me highjack this thread for just a moment... "Need" has very little to do with it. "Want" is what drives the creation of 4000 sq ft homes.
And our economy historically has driven us in that direction. Take two families A and B. Family A buys a small 3-bdrm cottage for $200K, family B buys a large mcmansion for $500K. Fast forward to retirement. Family A sells cottage for $400K and moves to a 2-bdrm condo in a warmer climate. Family B sells mcmansion for $1.2M and moves to golf course community.
Family B has created wealth that can be passed on to future generations. Family A "did the right thing" (greener, less consumption), but has much less to pass on. If future generations continue to do the same thing, Family B will continue to outstrip (financially) Family A, and the difference will grow with each generation.
Not necessarily; Family A has also spent much less money paying off their mortgage--money which could have been saved/invested in other things, with a similar "payoff" in the end..
There's also no guarantee that a 500K house will more than double in resale value; today's real estate market is proof of that..
Boston has the #1 university in the world (Harvard)
I think Boston will offer more intellectual, economic and cultural opportunities for you and your children.
Something to keep in mind when you are weighing your options!
It costs more for a reason - because more people find more reasons for Boston to be desirable. The appeal of a bigger house in the south doesn't outweigh the other reasons why people like Boston, to pursuade everyone to sell their houses and move.
Boston is more interesting than Atlanta. Because Boston attracts me for its historic charm (even though Im a native New Englander). But a cutter box and sprawling that you see like Atlanta, no way! ugh LOL
But hey, Altanta wont give your kids the experience of being in a beach
I agree with holden125.i would pick boston too. I live in newton, not sure how much homes are here. Brookline is pricey..that i do know lol. The city will be pricey too...check out milton area or evn malden area. homes might be a little bit cheaper. by the way atlanta gets snow too because its near the mountains. sometimes they do sometimes they dont, but i dont want u to move there think its warm all year. atlanta will get u more for your money but i just like boston better. making friends in boston will be harder, but if you get involved and groups and go out..it can happen. But in Boston u really have to make the effort to meet people. Go out to bars..i know i shouldnt say that, but ive met people here that way, and at work and book clubs..etc.. crime in atlanta is pretty bad, in the city part. overall i would still pick boston
Having grown up in New England, (35 miles from Boston, and in Boston at least 50 times a year). My input? No doubt Boston is a great city. More urban, more historic, and has a few more things to do than Atlanta does. However, having also lived in Atlanta and in a few places in the Southeast, I would never again return to NE to live. For one, I think the QOL is better in ATL, and a lot of that has to do with location, weather (yes, weather), COL, prettier neighborhoods and better suburbs, and a much more varied and affordable housing stock to choose from. As well as having THE best transit network in the south. Which, of course does not measure up to the extensiveness of "T", but...Also, the long commutes can be avoided if one focused on obtaining employment in the area they choose to live in--if possible. IMO, it's all a matter of personal preference. Dense, more urban cities have more appeal to hardcore urbanites, but is the over-inflated price tag worth it? Not to me. Not to many other people. But of course there are many who do think it's worth the high cost. Atlanta, I found is a beautiful city, just not the same culturally and structurally place as where I came from in new England. But to me the pros outweigh the cons. And that is what the OP should decide on.
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You WILL be running your AC 24/7 from May through early September. Utility costs are also quite high down there. For my 2-bed apartment (~1000 sq ft), our monthly electric bill in the summer was on average $120.00 per month. That was last year, and rates have increased 10-20% since then. Water in the city of Atlanta is also very high, partly because of antiquated pipes and the other part because of the 'water wars' going on with Alabama and Florida. And that was for a place with one floor and 8' ceilings. You look into a house with cathedral ceilings and 2x that area, and the price rises dramatically. Gas rates are also high if you get gas heat/cooking.
