Families and older houses in Greater Boston (potential Lead Paint)

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by NorthByNortheast

We just went through this decision since we're buying in the area. With the exception of a few townhouses built in the 80s, every single place we looked at was old enough that there was probably lead paint in it/on it at some point. You're right that if you test, you have to disclose the results of the test to future buyers. And if you find lead, and you don't fix it, and you have a kid and they end up with lead poisoning, I believe you can be held responsible (even if the lead could have come from somewhere else outside of your control). So most people don't test...I understand the intent of the law but I think it creates some strange incentives.

I believe it's a pretty hefty fine if your kid gets lead poisoning and you have not de-leaded your home. Personally, I just assume there is lead in a house if it was built 1978 or before. No need to spend the money on the test just to confirm what you know is extremely likely to be true plus the added negatives you point out.

Originally Posted by NorthByNortheast

We don't have children yet, but we developed some criteria in order to minimize the risk in places that hadn't been officially de-leaded, and ultimately, we found something we were happy with: it's one floor of a multi-family house built in the 20s, so there's probably some lead paint somewhere. But, it has new vinyl windows (no paint dust kicked up from opening/closing them), vinyl siding (no lead paint seeping off the exterior into the ground outside - though who knows what else is in the soil), and the interior paint on the walls/doors/trim is in good shape. We are having a little work done before we move in, and our contractor is following lead-safe practices and doing a full clean-up. We'll probably replace the doors in the house at some point since those are the only other moving parts. The windows were the most important part for us.

Did you test for lead? I think you're following a good plan to give yourself peace of mind, but unless you do a full de-leading you'll still have to disclose the lead in your home if you tested.

[NorthByNortheast]

Originally Posted by MikePRU

Did you test for lead? I think you're following a good plan to give yourself peace of mind, but unless you do a full de-leading you'll still have to disclose the lead in your home if you tested.

No, we did not have an official test done (by a lead inspector).
We did buy one of those "lead test" kits from the hardware store that lets you cut into and swipe different surfaces in your home, and we tested multiple swabs throughout the house and all of them were negative.

I know those aren't the most reliable tests, but we figured if they were positive, then we had a real problem on our hands. We did that at one house and the ones we did near the windows tested positive, so we didn't buy it.

[wivenhoe]

When we bought our house at the end of February, our priority was updating the electrics and not having a fire hazard. Our house needs a lot of updating, including fixing the windows.

We'll have to re-paint the house and deal with the lead point soon. I know a lot of house inspectors and real estate agents will recommend switching to vinyl windows. However, there's also a movement to restore existing old windows. Remember, old houses (those built before say 1850) were designed to last for generations (unlike many homes built today). They were built with quality products; individual parts could be easily replaced.

See
NEWRA Northeast Window Restoration Alliance
Window Woman of New England - Window Restoration
Preservation Brief 9: The Repair of Historic Wooden Windows

I know a lot of people in Salem, Marblehead and elsewhere who live in older homes (pre-1900) with children. I'm not saying that it's not a hazard or a risk. Everyone makes their own decisions.

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by wivenhoe

We'll have to re-paint the house and deal with the lead point soon. I know a lot of house inspectors and real estate agents will recommend switching to vinyl windows. However, there's also a movement to restore existing old windows. Remember, old houses (those built before say 1850) were designed to last for generations (unlike many homes built today). They were built with quality products; individual parts could be easily replaced.

Actually, vinyl windows are great but there's nothing wrong with wood windows. I do recommend to people to upgrade to a modern window though as their insulative properties are far greater than older windows.

[wivenhoe]

Mike - I've read that older windows are not necessarily less insulated than new vinyl windows. That's a myth. Vinyl windows are not necessarily more energy-efficient and neither are you helping the environment by switching to vinyl.

Many people buy into materialism and having everything new, but new isn't necessarily better or needed. Of course, real estate agents and home inspectors and everyone else with selling homes try to convince home owners/buyers to submit to materialism and consuming new.

In the 17th- and 18th- century they built homes to last for generations with high-quality windows to retain the heat. Before we bought our 200-yr-old home, we rented in a late 19th-century two-family home with new vinyl windows. Well, the late 19th-century two-family home with new vinyl windows was much colder overall than our 200-yr-old home. The vinyl windows were easier to open and close. However, if you restore old windows properly, they can be just as easy to open and close and be energy-efficient as vinyl windows and last hundreds of years longer than vinyl. Do your homework. Research.

[sm4269a]

I looked into restoring my old windows, but the cost was close to $1000 per window and I would have to keep the storm windows (changing them to screens every Spring, lots of fun). Instead I got brand new, double hung, energy efficient, UV protectant, vinyl windows at around $260 a pop and I got a tax credit for them too (in 2010). My heating bills went down and there was no draft. They're also super easy to clean (unlike old windows). Restoration sounds ok, but the prices are insane.

[tigerclaws]

While you worry about lead you gotta worry about asbestos as well for the older home. Just an fyi.

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by wivenhoe

Mike - I've read that older windows are not necessarily less insulated than new vinyl windows. That's a myth. Vinyl windows are not necessarily more energy-efficient and neither are you helping the environment by switching to vinyl.

They make wood replacement windows as well. I just have a really, really hard time wrapping my head around the thought that a single pane window would have the same or better insulative properties than a double pane window with UV glass and an inert gas in between the panes.

Originally Posted by wivenhoe

In the 17th- and 18th- century they built homes to last for generations with high-quality windows to retain the heat. Before we bought our 200-yr-old home, we rented in a late 19th-century two-family home with new vinyl windows. Well, the late 19th-century two-family home with new vinyl windows was much colder overall than our 200-yr-old home. The vinyl windows were easier to open and close. However, if you restore old windows properly, they can be just as easy to open and close and be energy-efficient as vinyl windows and last hundreds of years longer than vinyl. Do your homework. Research.

I agree that they built things to last back then, but home building and material technology has come a long way in 200-300 years and I just can't fathom that modern materials don't have superior insulative properties. While the home you rented may have been colder than your current home, it may not have been due to the windows. There are a lot of other places the home could be leaking heat. If the house had brand new windows and no insulation, it would be a cold house. If you told me they replaced the windows while you were there and it got colder, I would be more apt to agree with you.

Originally Posted by tigerclaws

While you worry about lead you gotta worry about asbestos as well for the older home. Just an fyi.

Asbestos can be in a lot of places. Most people know about pipe wrap, but 9x9 vinyl floor tiles often had asbestos and some boilers/furnaces had asbestos insulation as well. Those are just the two places that come to mind right away.

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by sm4269a

I looked into restoring my old windows, but the cost was close to $1000 per window and I would have to keep the storm windows (changing them to screens every Spring, lots of fun). Instead I got brand new, double hung, energy efficient, UV protectant, vinyl windows at around $260 a pop and I got a tax credit for them too (in 2010). My heating bills went down and there was no draft. They're also super easy to clean (unlike old windows). Restoration sounds ok, but the prices are insane.

I've been there, buddy. Restoration of a wood window is just MAJOR labor intensive. Remove the window and the sill and frame, put the goop on everything to remove the 15 layers of paint. Remove the goop, let it dry, patch the gaps, sand it all, prime, and paint again. It's just crazy how much labor is involved. And labor is always the most expensive component in a job.

The only people restoring windows used to be This Old House. Now I don't even see TOH restoring wood windows anymore. It's one thing to get a stuck window working again, it's a completely different story to fully restore a window.