Boston a boring city? (Cambridge, Quincy: buy, malls, move)

[missionhill]

Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua

I agree that Boston in too many ways does not have that panache, but you also have to look at the history of this city. A mere 30 years ago Boston was a backwater town whose glory days were well behind her, the industrial base went away well before that of other cities in this country and the world. That's why so much of the old architecture is preserved, Boston was basically a forgotten city.

Sorry Mr. J, but no one thought that 30 years ago. Beginning in the 60s, many people thought Boston was on the rebound. Even in the 50s the metro area was considered booming with all the Rte 128 development but the city itself was thought to be in need of major surgery, which it (unfortunately) got. But they started building skyscrapers downtown and in Back Bay in the 60s, and redeveloping "slum" neighborhoods elsewhere, and Boston was on the mend. Also it suddenly became a city of youth-- as the baby boom coalesced into the counterculture generation the youth movement adopted Boston as one of its own. By the 80s Boston had not only built many new buildings downtown and revived neighborhoods like the South End, the city had completed the sensational redevelopment of Quincy Market (and it really was sensational-- New York tried unsuccessfully to copy it at South Street Seaport.) The 80s were the years of the 'Massachusetts Miracle' which, as it turned out, didn't propel the Duke into the White House but was a real economic boom that sent property values in Boston way up. To the extent that old architecture was preserved, it came from the affluent grassroots in the 50s and 60s, when Beacon Hill residents pressed for historic preservation protection and Back Bay residents fought off a plan to build skyscrapers at all the corners along Commonwealth Avenue. Otherwise a lot was demolished; just think about everything lost to the West End, Government Center, and Central Artery projects.

Of course, the literary glory days were over by the 1880s. That is just as true now as it was in the 1980s.

[Mr. Joshua]

Originally Posted by missionhill

Sorry Mr. J, but no one thought that 30 years ago. Beginning in the 60s, many people thought Boston was on the rebound. Even in the 50s the metro area was considered booming with all the Rte 128 development but the city itself was thought to be in need of major surgery, which it (unfortunately) got. But they started building skyscrapers downtown and in Back Bay in the 60s, and redeveloping "slum" neighborhoods elsewhere, and Boston was on the mend. Also it suddenly became a city of youth-- as the baby boom coalesced into the counterculture generation the youth movement adopted Boston as one of its own. By the 80s Boston had not only built many new buildings downtown and revived neighborhoods like the South End, the city had completed the sensational redevelopment of Quincy Market (and it really was sensational-- New York tried unsuccessfully to copy it at South Street Seaport.) The 80s were the years of the 'Massachusetts Miracle' which, as it turned out, didn't propel the Duke into the White House but was a real economic boom that sent property values in Boston way up. To the extent that old architecture was preserved, it came from the affluent grassroots in the 50s and 60s, when Beacon Hill residents pressed for historic preservation protection and Back Bay residents fought off a plan to build skyscrapers at all the corners along Commonwealth Avenue. Otherwise a lot was demolished; just think about everything lost to the West End, Government Center, and Central Artery projects.

Of course, the literary glory days were over by the 1880s. That is just as true now as it was in the 1980s.

OK, 50 years ago.

[xS☺B☺s]

Originally Posted by Cliff Clavin

xS☺Be...just adding to my above statements about the Seaport booming...I just shot this now coming home(11/9/13). This is West First St. (at Dorchester St) looking west to D St. As you can see massive resitensial happening on First St. To the West and East. My condo is the shaded area to the right (north).

So anyways I hope you give the Seaport another chance. People live in and love this section of the city.

Well this is very good news. I used to drive to Fedex on a regular basis from Lower Rox so I know every possible route. What I used to do is change my routes to explore the back streets. I liked discovering the hidden gems - few though they may be. Always looking for signs of hope - recovery. Another issue for me was spending as little of my life as possible being in a stressful environment. So priority one was avoiding traffic combat. That's why I would drive Norfolk to Columbia to Carson. Sometimes I'd change my route and go up Old Colony or DOT. Or Boston St. Anyways, I know every nook and cranny.

What I was keenly aware of was that there was a significant size of inexcusably filthy area between beautiful Southie and the beautiful South End. Exactly the area I highlighted on the map. Even Roxbury on Columbia down to Franklin Park is far nicer than the mess in South Bay/Old Colony. Through my time in BOS, I watched them begin the process of rehabbing the area. Kmart. The hotels by BMC. The new condos at the Broadway Station. The whole new Harrison St. I always thought if they could just uproot this incredible mess we could have a Downtown the would be walkable from South End to City Point. Imagine baby strollers on under leafy sidewalks strolling down Mass Ave to Carson Beach. Then with a little more work, all the way to Franklin Park.

Anyways, What you're showing here Cliff, is exactly what I hoped would happen. And I knew it would. It's just taken a lot longer to happen that I had hoped. Too long for me unfortunately. Had Bush not destroyed the economy, I think it would have all been done 10 years ago.

[EdLincoln86]

Are we talking about the same Boston?

1) Lack of anything open for 24 hours. I know the Charles st CVS is open 24 hours but I don't know much else that is...

Agreed. The fact the city closes down at 2:00AM is one of the city's biggest flaws.

1)
2) Lack of much ethnic cuisine. I don't believe there is an Indonesian or filipino restaurant in the area. I know that just in Queens NYC, there are plenty of them. It seems like the only food that is reputable here is the Italian food, but i have had pretty crappy Italian food at numerous locations in the south end. Korean food is also subpar compared to the locations I've been to in flushing and koreatown in NYC.

There is a filipino restaurant two buildings down from me. I know there is at least one Indonesian restaurant. There is a wide range of Asian restaurants in Chinatown. I'm particularly fond of Malaysian myself...my friends favor Thai and Vietnamese.

the shopping is pretty much limited to Newbury St and Copley/Prudential, and the choices there are limited, as there is a lack of staple clothing stores like Top Man and Uniqlo. Downtown crossing is a joke. I was just in nanjing this summer, and the shopping in the Xinjiekou section blows prudential out of the water in terms of both the quantity and quality of the stores (and the food courts in the basement were so much better than the prudential food court). There were several malls in that section all jam packed next to each other in Nanjing, each several stories tall. It was awesome.

What about the Cambridge Side Galleria, or Faneuil Hall? Anyway, we seem to have different concepts of shopping. There are lots of fun cheap stores in Chinatown, and weird expensive stores in Harvard Square. And while Faneuil Hall isn't nearly as cool as it used to be, it still has one of the best food courts. I will grant that Downtown Crossing sucks.

4) abysmal karaoke scene. There are really only two karaoke studios (golden leaf and doremi) which are pitiful and expensive compared to those in Toronto or Shanghai or pretty much any other city.

Is that really one of the main criteria you use to judge a city?

5) Nightlife is also subpar, with everything ending at 2AM

The early closing times do suck, that I'll concede. I do find the number of students give the nightlife a certain energy, and the students bring all sorts of fun and interesting activities.

Also the lack of anything resembling Pacific Mall near Toronto or the endless string of Asian markets and diversity in Markham, Ontario.

Boston does have a respectable Chinatown and plenty of Asian markets.

Sounds like you really haven't explored your own city much. Do you just stick to the downtown area, for some reason? Also sounds like you have visited A LOT of world class cities, and are comparing Boston to the highlights of each city. There are bad sections in New York and most of those Asian cities that are worse then anything that exists in Boston.

The main things Boston has going for it are: 1.) The Universities and Tech Industries bring all sorts of fun creative intellectual activities. 2.) The energy the students bring. 3.) The Ocean 4.) The fact it is a safe city that lacks any truly "World Class" ghettos.

[blue bird]

Heck no, Boston is a wonderful and vibrant walking city. It's just not as good as Philadelphia but can carry its own weight.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by blue bird

Heck no, Boston is a wonderful and vibrant walking city. It's just not as good as Philadelphia but can carry its own weight.

Philly? Interesting. I've only been a few times but I always left wondering why a city so much bigger had nothing going on / not much life. South Street was the only area with life (that I saw), I must have been i the wrong parts. It has been some time though, maybe a return visit is in order.

[inthetrees]

Originally Posted by EdLincoln86

Are we talking about the same Boston?



Agreed. The fact the city closes down at 2:00AM is one of the city's biggest flaws.

2am? The city shuts down at midnight (last commuter trains leaving north/south station)
This makes going out at night pretty impossible if you want to use public transit.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by inthetrees

2am? The city shuts down at midnight (last commuter trains leaving north/south station)
This makes going out at night pretty impossible if you want to use public transit.

You just go out earlier or take a cab. I do it all the time when I'm out seeing bands.

[Cliff Clavin]

Originally Posted by timberline742

You just go out earlier or take a cab. I do it all the time when I'm out seeing bands.

Not to mention, with the exception of NYC's MTA and 1 line in Chicago, every public transit system in the country shuts down about the same time.

[johnathanc]

Originally Posted by inthetrees

2am? The city shuts down at midnight (last commuter trains leaving north/south station)
This makes going out at night pretty impossible if you want to use public transit.

I don't think Boston is well known for its nightlife, no city that shuts down at 2am can really call itself a nightlife capital. That being said, I don't think the nightlife in Boston sucks. And just because the city shuts down early compared to NYC, Chicago, and Miami doesn't mean you can't go out and have a good time. I'll admit that Boston does not have great clubs but nightclubs do exist if you look. And Boston punches well above its weight in terms of bars. Hotel bars, college bars, sports bars, wine bars, irish pub/bars, hipster bars etc. It reminds me of Dublin and some other European cities in this respect. It is definitely a bar city versus a club city.

As for public transportation late at night, yes, you have to cab it but that's not uncommon in most cities. I've always taken a cab everywhere though after partying in most North American cities, even when I lived in NYC. Yes, the subways are 24 hours in NYC but they run slower and one is just not in the mood at 3-4am to take the subway when cabs are so cheap anyway.