I really don't like living in Boston (Cambridge, Auburn: fit in, hotels)

[ogre]

Originally Posted by Debi1957

I cannot imagine that you would find bostonians small minded...that just has me shaking my head. I think they are the biggest out of the box thinkers and the most open minded people I have met. I think that the intelligence level there is wonderful. A ranking came out a while back ago that said the smartest cities in the US...Boston and Seattle!!! WOW! I agree completely with the Boston thing, as i truly believe that education is primary there. I think that folks there are also among the most NON predjudice people I have met in a long time! Hats off!!!!

The sports thing...well, you know...I am NOT a baseball fan, but am a red sox fan and watched, clinging to the bottom of my seat, the world series. I wish they would have lost one game so they could have won at home...but a win is a win I guess. The Yankess rival, whether anyone likes it or not, or how extremely out of hand it is, is a tradition...if you go to NY..you will get the same response, the same shirts that say the same things about the sox that the shirts in boston say about the yankees...the patriots,...well, they have been my team since I was 5...am 50 now...One thing I have noticed...winning season, losing season...the fans are behind their teams, bruins, celtics, sox or pats....they back em...that does not happen everywhere....good luck...all my opinion!

Rankings of most intelligent cities notwithstanding (and keeping in mind that those making the rankings base them on their own ideas of which criteria reflect "most intelligent," which we might not all agree with), if you're familiar with Boston, you've got to admit that some of those old "neigh-buh-hoods" can be quite parochial, with many residents hardly seeming to realize that there's a world out there beyond the neigh-buh-hood patronage network. Unfortunately, there is also a history of bigotry and racial prejudice in those sections of Boston. Though an area populated with Irish immigrants is probably not the prime example of this kind of neighborhood, it sounds as if Bluefly lives in an area that does have some of those parochial elements. Which leads back to my earlier advice, Bluefly: Give yourself time to interact with people all over Boston, enough to get to know what they're about.

As for the sports thing, well, I don't know whether I can quite go with that idea that some lack of political higher purpose leads Bostonians, as opposed to Washingtonians, to throw their passions into sports fandom. If that were the case, every city other than D.C. would be as nuts as Boston about its teams. Besides, it's not entirely true that people in Washington have no passion for sports. How many years is the waiting list now for Redskins' season tickets?

LeavingMA, even if you know OF Buckner, Dent, etc., (and there's plenty more history other than these two moments), at the age of 27 you could not possibly have LIVED all the history, so you can't really understand it the same way as someone who has been through those decades of heartbreak. Then there are those who were not only alive at the time, but who, unlike me, were old enough to be following sports, and really lived the '67 season. But that would take a book to get into, and would get way off topic. If you've lived through most, or a lot, of the history since then, well, that one championship in '04 doesn't satisfy the years of longing, but just gives you a taste of how nice it can be to see them finally win one, and whets your appetite for more.

[ogre]

Originally Posted by OREGONRAIN

Here is my two cents worth. I grew up in Mass and Im no kid , I lived there for many years, I am 3rd generation there of Irish immigrants. I didn't grow up in the city but was born there and lived all those years less than 1 hour from the city. Too me it will always be home there, but If someone is not comfortable with the the place, then I respect their view. There is no shame in realizing a place is not for you and I think that is where the originator of this post is leaning. Don't beat yourself up over it, just try it out, when your business is over there you will know whether Boston remains in your life or you say bye bye to it.

I think Oregon makes a really good point here, Bluefly. Whether Boston ever really inspires you, you'll get through just fine being a student here for a few years. If you're still not feeling inspired at that time, nothing forces you to stay here. I also have the feeling that once you really get going into graduate studies, you may not have a whole lot of time to concern yourself with the nuances of life in the city around you.

A few thoughts here: You said something about the endorphin rush of political power. Not to sound cynical, but to be realistic, the truth is that many people involved in politics--including those involved with lobbying, not just those who hold political office--are there because they're turned on by the concentration of power in a place like D.C. For a lot of people, it really has nothing at all to do with any "higher purpose."

Now think of this: As one of the world's great centers of education, Boston is involved quite a bit in higher purposes, through the generation of ideas. An example that comes to mind has to do with economics. There have been quite a few influential economists, but if you break it down to the real giants, there are basically two, Milton Friedman on the right, and John Kenneth Galbraeth on the left. Galbraeth was a Boston guy, who taught at Harvard for years. This means that one of the two schools of thought that form the basis for the national economic policies all those power-broking lobbyists in D.C. try to influence originated in Boston.

That's just one example. Boston is a center of scientific research, and innovations in high technology. Right now I'm entering this text into a computer which, one way or another, exists because of technology developed in the Boston area. At this moment there are airplanes in the sky, and satellites orbiting the Earth, being run by technology with key roots in developments that occurred in Boston. All over the world, lives are saved because of medical techniques that were developed in Boston.

It is true that there's not much of an endorphin rush associated with these innovations. Ideas are generated slowly. One scholar, or scientist, learns a small something new, writes about it in a journal, and thereby sparks a new thought in another scholar's mind. Sometimes decades pass between the first germ of an idea and the beginnings of everyday use of life-altering technology that traces back to that idea. A city that is important in this scholarly way has a different atmosphere than a city where blatant power moves are made daily. The influence on the world of a city like Boston is more subtle, but no less significant. As a student at MIT, you may be exposed to developments that will open your eyes, over time, to some of the big things that really are happening in Boston. Whether that kind of subtle, slowly developing influence on the larger world will ever excite you as much as the high-level power-brokering, and the bristling enthusiasm of protest demonstrations involving thousands of participants, found in D.C. depends on you and your personality and experiences. OregonRain has it right, though. After a few years in Boston, you'll have a better idea whether Boston will offer what you need in a place to live. If not, you can continue seeking the right place for yourself.

Enough of all that. What are you studying? And best of luck to you. Take care.

[mhz123]

Shocking! I've been to DC for a few trips and did the tours and seen the scenes... and it's the total *opposite* of where I would want to live in. Great tourism for sure, but the biggest impression I came away from it is beauracratic disgust and ineptitude. You can't think what's been happening during our past 2 presidencies, recent economic ****-hole we're in, and how the dollar is slipping and becoming more and more worthless has anything to do with happens behind closed doors in DC? ()

I'm not going to be staying in Boston for much longer, I'm either going back to NYC or giving San Fran a shot... but DC wouldn't even be close to my list of places to live.

[Bluefly]

Ogre - you make some really great points. Maybe that's why I've been let down. I came here thinking this was the epicenter of ideas that I had always imagined it to be, but maybe those are somewhat more limited aspects than I had initially thought.

The points about DC are incredibly valid as well. I'm not looking at the debacle that is our current administration or those who are just drawn to power, but rather the thousands of people moving beneath the limelight that are so interesting. For example, I was there a few months ago in this little jazzy club in the hood where all the great jazz singers used play 'til dawn after they played for the white audiences. I was talking to this woman who had just returned from Israel working for an organization to help children in wartorn countries. She was shot at, bombed, and forced to leave the country by the Israeli government because she had seen too much of what they do. That same weekend, I had breakfast with another woman who stages mock terrorist attacks for the Pentagon to teach them how terrorists think, what motivates them, etc... Just interesting people.

But yes - you're obviously correct.

[Bluefly]

Originally Posted by afewyearsinboston

No offense, but I thought your post really came off as being a bit naive and judgmental. I'm not even from Boston but I find it offensive that you find it so easy to slap a label on all of the people there without even knowing them and then reinforce your statement as if you are intellectually superior. In fact, just because people in a particular area are a certain way it doesn't make them any better or worse than anyone else. Just different. How those differences are interpreted by individuals are entirely subjective. Your term of choice, "small minded" could be equally applied to you in this context, although I don't want to insult you (honestly). I'm also bothered that you chose to throw in a racial element into your post, and then think it's ok because "you're white". I could go on and on, but I realize you probably didn't mean to come off as offensive and were frustrated but I had to share my initial reaction with you. It happens to all of us.

As for being "engaged on the global platform", I think that's a bit of a strange statement as well. What exactly are you looking for? I'm sure if you knew people who shared the same interests, you'd be feeling much more satisfied with the area but of course this takes time. One of the biggest challenges of moving to a new area is getting settled and meeting people who have common interests.

Where do I start with this one? It's a fair enough critique. I knew when I started typing I'd get accused of something like this. Nevertheless, it is interesting that in our society one can be paid millions of dollars to hit a little sphere with a stick and be regarded as a hero for doing it well. Thousands of people pay significant money to see this individual hit the sphere with the stick better than they ever could - which is why they pay to see it. Or perhaps run faster or throw an oblong ball farther (I played football and lacrosse in college so don't accuse me of being jockist too). On the other hand, if somebody has a higher intelligence than a vast majority of other people - has committed his time and energy to exploring the deepest questions of reality and truth while most people were watching Dancing with the Stars - that person is expected to reduce himself to the median lest he be a pretentious, elitist prick. So, in short, I am intellectually superior to a vast majority of the human race. It's just a simple fact. Contrary to how this post might sound, I'm not arrogant about it or look down on anybody for it.

You're right, though, that calling people "small-minded" might contradict that previous statement. I didn't mean it in a perjorative way. It has nothing to do with intelligence or wit or anything else. Whatever catch-all phrase we want to use, it's in reference to the people who never question the meaning of their existence or the thrust of the world at large. They rarely think about the impact of their actions beyond themselves, their immediate family, and perhaps their closest friends. Such people live everywhere. They populate my family and every city from east to west. I was just surprised to see such a high concentration here in the Athens of America. Obviously, many here are not like that at all.

As for the "racial element", I didn't realize that acknowledging racial differences was racist. Simply pining for the influence of one culture (in this case African American) does not in any way demean another culture. A vibrant city to which I am drawn is multicultural, and Boston's not very multicultural. There's really no denying that. It's a predominantly Irish city. That's great. It's unique in the United States. I appreciate that. I just prefer a bigger mix for my tastes. Many would disagree. That's great too.

In reference to your confusion over being engaged on the global platform, see the previous post for examples. Outside academia, I don't really see it.

[Theperle]

Bravo, Bluefly.
I moved up to Boston about 8 years ago from NYC (my city - the greatest city in the world!) My cyberspace match, now husband, lived there and so did his children (previous marriage). I gave up 'my city' for love and for children that needed to know their daddy was around for them.

It wasn't the first time I left my city. I'd been gone before for 1 year, one time and then for almost 3 years another time (both moves had been to Los Angeles.) L.A. was a lot of fun in a pretentious, disneyland-for-adults kind of way (but couldn't hold me for long term.) I always missed the pulse of my city.

This move, this move, was different. This was long-term, no turning back "You're not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy" move. I remember very shortly after moving up north, my husband (then fiance) and his friend showing me around Boston. Oh, and they had to take me up to NG's rooftop to see the skyline of Boston...????????????????????????????
Look, I was at the stage of my life -- met a nice guy; been there, done that with the city that never sleeps (on both coasts)...This is going to be different. It has been.

Your "white-bred" comment in your orig. posting I interpreted as "white bread" -- middle-of-the-road, no funk, no soul - very in-the-box thinking. (That doesn't seem to be what you were getting at but somehow I think we're talking about the same feeling.)
Now to be fair, I lived in the burbs (Metrowest area) and commuted downtown to work via the railway. You'd think there would be more flavor there - nope. I can't put my finger on why a city that does offer so much could lack so much pizzazz.

A few things to consider:
1. Why are you unable to order Manhattan Clam Chowder anywhere in the Boston area? (The reverse? If they sell one, they usually sell the other)
2. Why is it that if you go to a Red Sox game, the vast majority of
T-shirts, banners, etc. being sold are anti-Yankees? (The reverse? Not so)
3. Driving around Boston with it's horrible street signage is enough to make anyone hate the city. (NY has it's driving challenges too but signage? not a problem.

Perhaps, Bluefly, you are ready to make another major change in your life.
I recently did. My family & I moved down south...to NC. I'll tell you this, I now have an appreciation for Boston (but probably not in the way you might think.)
You see, it took me living in Boston (suburbs) for 8 years and getting the cold shoulder whenever I'd try to be friendly with someone on the checkout line or talking with the other mothers about places to shop and hearing that they don't like a particular store because of the "type of customer" that shops there. It took me those reasons and more to be able to truly appreciate and absolutely love the beauty of our new state.
It ain't New York but it's not trying to be either.

[Debi1957]

Well, being a ready-to-move-to-MA-floridian and having done some travel, I don't understand the virtues of DC at all! I think that it was a wonderful place to visit, very interesting and a fun mix of people doing the touring etc, but its center, seems like to me, is very focused on mostly one thing, politics. If thats where your interest is, then man is that the place to be or what!!! I truly am a major MA/Boston fan and I have met the nicest, kindest people there. Southern hospitality, in my opinion, moved north! Like the previous post said, NY is their city and there is NO OTHER city in the world like it, just like Boston...its MY city and no place like it! but no place is trying to be. Go where you are happy, but know one thing FOR SURE! you are getting the best education in Boston, no matter which college. I wish you the best of luck, but Bluefly, before you go, before you pack your last piece of clothing, remove your blinders from your eyes and enjoy what is Boston, what is Mass because I promise....there is no where like it and if you think you can escape it..trust me...it will always be a part of you! I wish you the best of luck and I am envious you are already there. My husband has an intracorporate interview there tomorrow! We have our fingers crossed.

[smarty]

Interesting that people talk about pulse.

In a city like NYC, Hong Kong, Shanghai, I find that people like to go out much more. I often wonder why... may be it is the miniature size living space? No one want to stay home... home is a bed... only a place to crash. The population is very high and places are crowded.. You don't need to walk... people will move you. I love it when I was single. There is so much energy and vibe. However, I find a layer of emptiness after the parties, lights, .... etc. As I get older, I need more quiet time to re-charge... to think. Some will love it, some will hate it.

Boston often thinks they're BIG. There is no comparison. But, it is just fine for me. I need my space.

NYC Population - 8.2 million.
---- Density 27,083/sq mi
---- Metro 18.8 million
Bos Population - 0.6 million.
---- Density 12,327/sq mi
---- Metro 4.4 million

Oh... I forget we have to include Washington DC. I only visited there a few times. My understanding is there is a lot of poverty around the corner. The metro area is much better. It is probably the lobbying money. As I heard one time, there are a lot of similarity between democratic and communist government. One has money flowing above the table (call lobbying) and the other has money flowing under the table (bribery). The result is still the same. Money change hands and some action taken in your favor.

[Debi1957]

WOW!!! is that NYC/Boston comparison for real!!!! I NEVER WOULD HAVE BELIEVED THAT!!! Amazing...I know that NYC is nuts, but in a good way...I love it there without a doubt and I know there are differences, but I never would have imagined that much of a numbers difference!! WOW! learn something new every day!

[HowGoesIt]

Bluefly-
I can't comprehend how someone can dislike Boston. I grew up in rural Pennsylvania, went to UPenn in Philly, and moved up to Boston after I graduated (2004). I think there is plenty of diversity around the city. If you take a walk down Mass Ave in Cambridge, you will hear people speaking dozens of different languages. There are also plenty of Indian, Thai, Ethiopian, Vietnamese, Cambodian, and Japanese restaurants scattered throughout the city.

I'm not a Red Sox fan one bit and I think baseball is extremely boring, but how could you not like the vibe and energy that the Sox bring to the city? I love going to the bars, having a few drinks, talking to people, and cheering on the local teams.. it's just fun. There is also great bar/club/restaurant scene (not as good as Miami, LA, or NYC.. but not bad at all). In a city of millions of people, I'm sure you can find the diversity you are looking for.

My only gripe about Boston is the rediculous cost of living and the weather. No place is perfect, you just have to think of the glass as being half full.