How bad are the public schools, really? (Boston, Cambridge: apartments, city hall)

[Wants2MoveNOW]

My husband and I are looking to get the hell out of California... and we have family in Boston, but whenever I look on Trulia and am searching for apartments in good school districts,...they don't seem to exist.

So, are public schools really awful in Boston? Or are they just being portrayed as such?

[professeurpablo]

First, I'm a public school fan, so let me get that out of the way. I know that there are flaws in every system, but there is a lot of good that goes on in public schools, even in so-called "bad" school districts.

The City of Boston struggles with a severe image problem with respect to its schools. That said, there are pockets of greatness, and I'm not only referring to the exam schools, which are the three schools one must pass a test to enter starting in the seventh grade. I don't have kids yet myself, but I'm sure that others who do can chime in with information about excellent elementary schools in different parts of the city. They might also be able to explain the city's complicated lottery system, which I believe is in a state of flux at the moment.

The other thing is to consider is the geographic scale and organization of the Greater Boston area. Again, others have posted about this, but I'll give a brief explanation. The definition of what is "Boston" is probably not what you think. Cities and towns are quite small here; a lot of this is tied to history and the fact that the area was settled long before the automobile. Cambridge, which is across the river from Boston, is a separate municipality with a separate school district tied to its city government; the same is true for the dozens of cities and towns clustered around Boston making up the metropolitan area.

So what does this mean? You need to consider many things! What is your budget? What kind of environment are you seeking? Do you prefer a walkable area with shops and access to transit? Do you want to live a less car-dependent lifestyle? Are you okay with living a bit outside of the city and relying more on driving? Do you like a semi-rural environment? Then you can begin to think about which communities fit your parameters and what the schools are like in those places.

I hope I'm not being presumptuous in guessing that you aren't familiar with the setup here. I was surprised by how different California was when I went there for the first time years ago, so I thought a summary might be helpful as you try to make a decision.

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by Wants2MoveNOW

My husband and I are looking to get the hell out of California... and we have family in Boston, but whenever I look on Trulia and am searching for apartments in good school districts,...they don't seem to exist.

So, are public schools really awful in Boston? Or are they just being portrayed as such?

I was an educator for the Boston Public Schools (BPS) for four years (middle/high school level) as well as a product of the schools. I can give you some insight of the situation in the BPS.

Firstly, stemming from the busing experiment of the 70's that tried to integrate kids of different races, the BPS for a long time had no real neighborhood schools. Elementary school seats were assigned by lottery, middle schools were split by zones (there were three or four I believe), and high schools were and still are citywide. Many students had to be bused from one end of the city to the next and many still are. Only recently has the City been experimenting with more neighborhood centered schools to cut down on busing which has become quite expensive.

It is up for debate on how awful the BPS really are. Regular non-examination schools, at least at the middle and high school levels tend to have much lower test scores than examination schools and slightly lower than pilot schools which are small selective schools with a certain theme such as business, engineering or public health. The good thing is that the number of pilot schools has increased in recent years. The bad thing is that there is still a lot of political interference and ineffective bureaucracy that prevents students from getting a good education or from getting into the school of their choice. At times, I as a teacher felt I was teaching only what the government wanted me to teach or what the government wanted the kids to learn. Some schools were more lenient and allowed some tweaking of curriculum, others, especially already poorly performing ones were extremely rigid on what was taught and what was learned.

Remember too that big city politics plays a huge role in the public schools but that can be said in New York, Chicago, Philadelphia, and maybe even Los Angeles and San Francisco you name it. Education is too hot of a political topic nowadays and eager politicians are always willing to cash in on attempts to "revive" or "improve" public education when much of the time they're only bettering their own names and leaving the students - the ones who are supposed to get the benefits - in the dust. I hope I am not scaring you away from Boston with all this but just be forewarned that choosing a school in the City is not as easy a task as you think it is.

Perhaps it would be helpful if you told us which part of Boston were you thinking of moving to and what level education your kids will be in. The one area that will be hard to locate a local school is Downtown. Sorry but the powers in City Hall don't believe luxury condominiums and public schools go together well. Keep that in mind. Also a good neighborhood might not necessarily have good schools and vice versa. See what 1970's busing did to our City?

[mdovell]

I think education occurs beyond a classroom. There is much to be said about the other things the Boston area has. For example the amount of museums. Most notably the MFA (art) and MoS (science). Also everyone in the state has a right to a Boston library card and this includes ebooks. The transit system is much better than what you will find in California so that should help in terms of working in one area and living in another for the purposes of sending a kid to school. There are also charter schools, private schools and even religious schools if you want that.

[snatale1]

They are really that bad! I went to them my whole life and still have younger cousins in them now. Nothing has changed. I wouldn't wish BPS on the kids of my worst enemy. The numbers don't lie, the drop out rate's don't lie. Drive by schools and see for yourself. Some people who I'll politely call lunatics fit for a rubber room will defend them for some unknown reason, but It's wrong to make fun of insane people so I digress. Did I mention as a contractor I had the "pleasure" of doing lots of work in school bldgs for years after I was no longer a student? Move to a surrounding suburb and get good schools. Boston's schools are COMPLETE CRAP! I should also mention that thanks to Boston's busing program once out middle school even if you live in a GREAT neighborhood they'll just bus your kid to the worst ghetto they can find.

Look at Boston's Public School stats, then check surrounding Dedham, Milton, Canton, Newton, Brookline, Quincy etc.

[AtkinsonDan]

I am of the opinion that smaller learning environments will always outperform larger ones. How is this pertinent to the thread topic? With the built-out, dense nature of Boston and its suburbs, most of the area's public schools will be large because there is often a lack of available land on which to built multiple smaller high schools. Subsequently most of the local public high schools are in fact quite large. I attended one of these large high schools and I struggled tremendously. However a little later in life I was able to get my act together and obtain both a bachelors and masters degree in my field. I excelled in smaller college environments, so to this day I believe larger schools are a societal weakness.

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by AtkinsonDan

I am of the opinion that smaller learning environments will always outperform larger ones. How is this pertinent to the thread topic? With the built-out, dense nature of Boston and its suburbs, most of the area's public schools will be large because there is often a lack of available land on which to built multiple smaller high schools. Subsequently most of the local public high schools are in fact quite large. I attended one of these large high schools and I struggled tremendously. However a little later in life I was able to get my act together and obtain both a bachelors and masters degree in my field. I excelled in smaller college environments, so to this day I believe larger schools are a societal weakness.

Depends on the individual. No doubt some of the top notch public high schools in the region (Brookline High, Newton North, Lexington High, and my own alma mater Boston Latin) are giant behemoths with so many students that you're likely to end up graduating with people you've never even said hello to all the years. Some students have the drive in them and actually excel quite well in big challenging environments. It also opens them up to real life as opposed to being coddled in a small secluded environment. This and it also depends on the amount of resources a school gets. Large schools with many resources can still help out needy students.

Whereas in several small schools that were broken from bigger high schools I taught at had smaller class sizes but fewer resources and fewer courses to choose from. By and large they were not good schools although they did provide a degree of comfort and security to the troubled inner city youth that were my students. I even got to teach special ed. classes which only had a handful of students each but special ed. is a different topic all together that I'd be happy to talk about in another post. There are too many ifs and buts to say what is good and what is bad about it. Just keep in mind that student population size is not the only indicator to a school's performance. The amount of resources allocated to it, the location, the politics, the instructors, even the community that makes up the school body all have to do with it.

[pennyone]

Yes, if the parents are crappy and care less about the expansion of the mind, and more about drugs, booze, fights and other trashy concerns, no amount of resources will help their kids. A few will be gifted enough to rise above their unfortunate home life, but for most, it is end game before their lives even began.

[charolastra00]

Public schools in Boston PROPER generally leave something to be desired, but most urban school districts have similar problems. The Boston Public School system is much better than most other big, urban districts (like Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, Phoenix, DC, LA). Outside of Boston, even schools that are not ranked as highly are likely above average on the national scale.

Even in Boston, I know plenty of happy parents. As has been alluded to, parents who are engaged in learning and the school system tend to have successful kids. In places like Brookline, Newton, and Lexington, the schools are better because more parents are involved and value education. The teachers are not necessarily any better. I have a good friend who bought in JP before it gentrified and could probably make a killing on her house if she sold it and moved to one of the better but expensive districts like Lexington. But she loves the elementary school that her son attends and will not leave. Now, might that change by high school? Who knows.

Are you actually looking to move to Boston proper or are you looking in the suburbs?

[papaya21]

check out Southborough. Plenty of apartments for rent, and good schools. Also, perhaps, Westborough. Stay clear of Marlborough/Shrewsbury! Also, Acton-Boxborough or Concord. I believe those town's have more apartment communities than say Sudbury, Lincoln or Dover-Sherborn.