Help me understand why Hyde Park MA is always overlooked (Boston: middle-class, 2014)
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It seems sort of unfair that HP is a forgotten part of the city. So much money seems to go into other areas of Boston, but not HP.
Finding HP ugly and W. Rox attractive is a matter of opinion. I'm not sure how the Stonybrook forest area is ugly unless you hate nature. Cleary Sq and readville have their ugly parts. The only part of W. Roxbury i really find attractive is the Bellevue hill area.
Have you noticed that Charlestown rarely gets mentioned on these threads? It's gentrified, yet it's never mentioned. Odd, don't you think.
66% appreciation, in "a few years." Sure, that's totally not unreasonable (eyeroll)...
66% appreciation over two and a half cycles is not totally unreasonable for parts of Boston that (i) came out of the housing crash below median priced, (ii) are located within a half mile to one of the preferred subway lines (orange, red, Blue, D or E), and (iii) are located somewhat close to the city center. My sense is that the neighborhoods extending East from Longwood into Roxbury have turned that (Mission Hill, Fort Hill), along with parts of Dorchester and East Boston. You can make it more complicated, but there's a reason why Westie and Hyde Park have stagnated while other areas have not and it is entirely to do with the commuting options.
As far as the Zillow predictions, using neighborhoods to predict increases is way too blunt a measure. I like their zip code break downs for understanding how the city is building out, but it still is more of a sledgehammer than a scalpel. To me all signs point to 02121 having an extended run over the next couple of years, the area that includes East Roxbury/West Dorchester and want many point to as some of the more problematic neighborhoods in the city.
Coming out of the crash, 02120 (Mission Hill) was the first neighborhood in Boston to light up with above 20% appreciation rates, that slowed over time (but seems to picked up this summer) and spread to 02119 (Fort Hill/Dudley Square), which I believe has by a narrow margin led the city in appreciation rates in both of the last two years. Now 02121 (East Roxbury/West Dot) is well above 20% -- it's just moving East through Roxbury. People can point to the crime, but there doesn't seem to be much of a correlation between crime and housing values, take the South End for example.
None of this, of course, means that you shouldn't buy in Hyde Park if you like it there.
66% appreciation over two and a half cycles is not totally unreasonable for parts of Boston that (i) came out of the housing crash below median priced, (ii) are located within a half mile to one of the preferred subway lines (orange, red, Blue, D or E), and (iii) are located somewhat close to the city center. My sense is that the neighborhoods extending East from Longwood into Roxbury have turned that (Mission Hill, Fort Hill), along with parts of Dorchester and East Boston. You can make it more complicated, but there's a reason why Westie and Hyde Park have stagnated while other areas have not and it is entirely to do with the commuting options.
Westie and Hyde Park have better commuting options than many areas of Jamaica Plain and similar ones to Roslindale. Parts of Jamaica Plain are not close to the green or orange lines at all. The north corner of Arborway the Pond is not even near a bus stop. The entire side West of center street which contains the highest priced neighborhoods in JP is a long walk to an MBTA stop. Westie and Hyde Park both have multiple commuter stops and bus service.
The problems is that there is nothing to do at night or on the weekends in Westie and Hyde Park. People living in Jamaica Plain, Roslindale, Dorchester, East Boston can go out in their own neighborhoods. These places are close to Boston and are destinations within themselves. That is why these places are desirable for graduate students, professional singles, couples and families and Westie and Hyde Park attract families but no so many singles and couples without children.
Not everyone takes the train either...i mean the train is pretty awful, brings in a lot of riff raff (i've seen the people who take the train in Dorchester) and some just prefer to drive. I take the T and sometimes and about once a week i just want to quit it and drive because i cant stand being around the crowd of people. People just seem so rude on the T. The redline is pretty cheap though so i stay. I do know a lot of people living near the redline who choose to drive.
Roslindale is doing very well and they just have the commuter rail. Same for West Roxbury and many areas of JP like someone else said above.
I think there will be people who are always of afraid of areas like Roxbury and Dorchester and will never want to live there. Dorchester has a lot of condos to offer and that seems to be what they have going for them now....but not everyone wants a condo either. ALSO the condos in Dot are going for more than many homes i see listed in HP, plus there are fees on top of that. I think people will get tired of that. Many people just want their own house too.
It seems like people in boston dont mind spending a lot on rent? I'm always shocked when i hear of people i work with renting in places like cambridge, beacon hill, charlestown, somerville etc. I guess they dont have a need to have to go to a place like Roxbury or dorchester. Maybe one day Dorchester will be a posh address...but it isnt at the moment and some people really seem to care about what their address says. The people who cannot afford anything better than Dot or Roxbury will go there I suppose...and same if they cant afford to buy anywhere other than HP. As far as I can see HP is the only place left in Boston where you can get a good deal on a house if you are a middle class person and is still relatively safe. i look at Roslindale prices and they just seem like...well a lot. Some people still want a bargain, a good deal. I just saw that a beautiful 5 bedroom victorian sold in HP for about 540k or something around there. Many people will take that over being close to a red or orange line.
I do agree there is no nightlife in HP. I don't really think there is in Dorchester either other than a few bars and restaurants...but more so than hp.
I guess we could back and forth quite a bit on why people would and would not want to live in certain areas.
Last edited by Whatsnext75; 11-06-2015 at 05:03 PM..
Reason: Added
Westie and Hyde Park have better commuting options than many areas of Jamaica Plain and similar ones to Roslindale. Parts of Jamaica Plain are not close to the green or orange lines at all. The north corner of Arborway the Pond is not even near a bus stop. The entire side West of center street which contains the highest priced neighborhoods in JP is a long walk to an MBTA stop. Westie and Hyde Park both have multiple commuter stops and bus service.
The problems is that there is nothing to do at night or on the weekends in Westie and Hyde Park. People living in Jamaica Plain, Roslindale, Dorchester, East Boston can go out in their own neighborhoods. These places are close to Boston and are destinations within themselves. That is why these places are desirable for graduate students, professional singles, couples and families and Westie and Hyde Park attract families but no so many singles and couples without children.
Well, JP has seen much more modest growth over the past half decade than the areas that I mentioned. I think your general point is right, though, for what its worth, and I think I may have mentioned it in my post: you have to look past the name of a neighborhood and consider the section when trying to find growth opportunities.
I think my formula holds true, though. Can anyone think of a neighborhood that fits the following profile that isn't seeing precipitous growth: ((i) came out of the housing crash below median priced, (ii) is located within a half mile to one of the preferred subway lines (orange, red, Blue, D or E), and (iii) is located somewhat close to the city center).
Also the problem with the T stations in Dorchester aside from Savin hill is that not a lot of neighborhoods are that close to them and there's no where to park. Youd have to get dropped off but not everyone has that option of having a driver to take you there either. The fields corner station is in a rough area. I don't see that neighborhood gentrifying anytime soon.
It runs once an hour off peak and on the weekend. It's a completely inappropriate use of commuter rail equipment that's artificially subsidized by the T for the time being. It's often the first line replaced with a shuttle bus when the **** hits the fan.
I think that you have this incorrect. It is essentially set in place by Federal regulators. In order to expand Needham service - they actually restored profitable weekend service - they added more Fairmont service. It also had political backing. I think that the MBTA would have cut the service if it did not have a lot of proponents with vision.
Fairmont provides a vital link. Nothing else would be there.
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Re
I think your general point is right, though, for what its worth, and I think I may have mentioned it in my post: you have to look past the name of a neighborhood and consider the section when trying to find growth opportunities.
