How bad does it have to get! (Boston, Needham: how much, job openings)
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This isn't a P ing contest, but just to highlight how unremarkable the Worcester Line is even compared to the others.
Again, I don't disagree with you really. I think Providence is the best, but I don't think the margin between best and worst is all that great. Not the same as, say, the difference between the Blue and the Green where you can easily point to the 21 minutes it takes to go from Bowdoin to Wonderland and the 47 minutes it takes to go from Park to Boston College (roughly the same distance).
The reason I mentioned Worcester is because of the improvement over driving the same route at peak times. "Efficient" probably wasn't the right word. Routes 9 and 90 are two of the worst stretches over a long distance. So the Worcester line, in my opinion, represents one of the biggest improvements over driving in the area. But yeah, purely from a time standpoint, it's not remarkable.
Again, I don't disagree with you really. I think Providence is the best, but I don't think the margin between best and worst is all that great. Not the same as, say, the difference between the Blue and the Green where you can easily point to the 21 minutes it takes to go from Bowdoin to Wonderland and the 47 minutes it takes to go from Park to Boston College (roughly the same distance). .
When I worked in Boston and lived in Quincy, I would almost always get home quicker than co-workers who lived in Allston/Brighton. Found that baffling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
The reason I mentioned Worcester is because of the improvement over driving the same route at peak times. "Efficient" probably wasn't the right word. Routes 9 and 90 are two of the worst stretches over a long distance. So the Worcester line, in my opinion, represents one of the biggest improvements over driving in the area. But yeah, purely from a time standpoint, it's not remarkable.
Still, really? There are a lot of awful drives. Greenbush. Lakeville/Middleboro. The commute on 93 from Lawrence/Haverhill is certainly not without torture either.
My special attitude towards the Worcester, mostly comes from my experience living near various CR lines. When I lived near the Providence, Franklin, and Lakeville/Middleboro lines I would use them on a semi-regular basis (usually off-peak/recreational reasons). It was clearly the best option. Pricewise, timewise, sanitywise. Most recent place I lived, Southborough was my closest station. Never rode from there once, or any other station along the line. Between the parking situation and door to door times, it was absolutely useless to me whether I had to report to work in the city during peak hours, or if it was for off-peak entertainment purposes. Ranking against all other options, it always came in last.
Being that it connects the state's two largest cities, the line should really be a showpiece for the system. SAD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeePee
Just 29% Approve Of The Way Baker Has Handled The MBTA
"We" or "He"? It's a little late to change the latter unfortunately, although I do hear Numb Nuts wants a 3rd term. Let's see if we "learn" next time around.
I think this is where the "measured" approach hurts him. Let's be clear, Baker is not the most responsible party for the T issues we're dealing with by a long shot. For 2+ decades, leadership has long done the bare minimum to keep it running and that deferred maintenance/lack of investment has caught up to us. But he needed to take a more proactive approach after his election. There were significant investments starting with righting the ship on the Green Line extension, procurement of new vehicles for Red/Orange (and Green), and the reactionary fixes to the network after the winter of '15, but there was very little urgency and that screwed us (and hurt him) as these disasters are happening as a result. If he doesn't take a more aggressive approach to addressing the T, it's going to cost him big in the next election.
Quote:
Originally Posted by massnative71
Still, really? There are a lot of awful drives. Greenbush. Lakeville/Middleboro. The commute on 93 from Lawrence/Haverhill is certainly not without torture either.
My special attitude towards the Worcester, mostly comes from my experience living near various CR lines. When I lived near the Providence, Franklin, and Lakeville/Middleboro lines I would use them on a semi-regular basis (usually off-peak/recreational reasons). It was clearly the best option. Pricewise, timewise, sanitywise. Most recent place I lived, Southborough was my closest station. Never rode from there once, or any other station along the line. Between the parking situation and door to door times, it was absolutely useless to me whether I had to report to work in the city during peak hours, or if it was for off-peak entertainment purposes. Ranking against all other options, it always came in last.
Being that it connects the state's two largest cities, the line should really be a showpiece for the system. SAD.
Yeah, it should be the best line in the network by far. I agree. And I think part of the reason I feel differently from you is I'm accounting for the trip between downtown Worcester and Boston, not the communities in between. The drive between downtown Worcester to downtown Boston during peak hours can be over 2 hours fairly regularly. The commuter rail, even in its current form, is much better. And other routes you've mentioned have the alternative of driving to the Red Line or Orange Line instead (when I lived near Middleborough/Lakeville, I mostly drove to Quincy Adams because it was faster and more convenient since the traffic generally is only awful for the last exit or two on 24 and then along 128 to the station). You're not going to drive from Worcester to Riverside and ride another 50 minutes on the Green Line. 93, especially with the HOV, is better than 90 inside 128 and the 90 backups extend forever. I have an office in Westborough, that drive can be nearly 2 hours if the traffic is bad enough.
"We" or "He"? It's a little late to change the latter unfortunately, although I do hear Numb Nuts wants a 3rd term. Let's see if we "learn" next time around.
I see a lot of hate towards Baker, but where's the hate towards DeLeo and or the House with a perpetual Supermajority? Was there some panacea MBTA capital upgrade bill on his desk that he tossed in the recycle bin?
Years of neglect and underfunding were the root causes of much of the recent news.
Years of neglect and underfunding were the root causes of much of the recent news.
The form of taxes needed to fund these all come at a cost to many who don't ride it, in their narrow view they don't think it directly benefits them. Which is crazy.
I have 0 children, and I can see the benefit of taxing for public schools.
Yeah, it should be the best line in the network by far. I agree. And I think part of the reason I feel differently from you is I'm accounting for the trip between downtown Worcester and Boston, not the communities in between. The drive between downtown Worcester to downtown Boston during peak hours can be over 2 hours fairly regularly. The commuter rail, even in its current form, is much better. And other routes you've mentioned have the alternative of driving to the Red Line or Orange Line instead (when I lived near Middleborough/Lakeville, I mostly drove to Quincy Adams because it was faster and more convenient since the traffic generally is only awful for the last exit or two on 24 and then along 128 to the station). You're not going to drive from Worcester to Riverside and ride another 50 minutes on the Green Line. 93, especially with the HOV, is better than 90 inside 128 and the 90 backups extend forever. I have an office in Westborough, that drive can be nearly 2 hours if the traffic is bad enough.
I would typically drive to Alewife via. Rte. 2. Either that or just drive all the way in, or park in Eastie and ride the 3 stops on the Blue Line. That South Shore has better alternatives was part of my point, that even with those available the CR still worked to my advantage (whereas westward it doesn't even when being virtually stuck with nothing else).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgang239
I see a lot of hate towards Baker, but where's the hate towards DeLeo and or the House with a perpetual Supermajority? Was there some panacea MBTA capital upgrade bill on his desk that he tossed in the recycle bin?
Years of neglect and underfunding were the root causes of much of the recent news.
This post sums it up pretty well, that the sense of urgency was never there when needed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrfox
I think this is where the "measured" approach hurts him. Let's be clear, Baker is not the most responsible party for the T issues we're dealing with by a long shot. For 2+ decades, leadership has long done the bare minimum to keep it running and that deferred maintenance/lack of investment has caught up to us. But he needed to take a more proactive approach after his election. There were significant investments starting with righting the ship on the Green Line extension, procurement of new vehicles for Red/Orange (and Green), and the reactionary fixes to the network after the winter of '15, but there was very little urgency and that screwed us (and hurt him) as these disasters are happening as a result. If he doesn't take a more aggressive approach to addressing the T, it's going to cost him big in the next election.
Of course there is a ton of blame to go around, and the supermajority and previous administrations are more to blame than Baker for this. I think a lot of has to do with expectations. Mass. voters have historically placed very low standards on their local legislators while expecting the world from the governor. As a Republican in an overwhelmingly Democratic state, people elected Baker as an outsider to keep the House and Senate in check. Somebody who was businesslike and would get things accomplished. Especially with the MBTA system (unlike some local bridge or library project let's say), it was more on the governor (the #1 leader) to take charge. Even though previous governors failed us as well, Baker still didn't take action the way he should have and WHEN he should have. So it turns out that despite his fluff, he is no different from the rest of them. It's harder for a governor to get away with it, because after all "my senator is good guy, it's all the rest of them...".
Last edited by massnative71; 06-27-2019 at 12:13 PM..
The form of taxes needed to fund these all come at a cost to many who don't ride it, in their narrow view they don't think it directly benefits them. Which is crazy.
I have 0 children, and I can see the benefit of taxing for public schools.
In the past 10-15 years I think this has definitely changed a good deal in general. Quite simply, traffic is getting to the point of being prohibitive for many. So traffic improvement from T investments is one glaringly obvious area of improvement to anyone. The concentration of jobs in/around Boston and the lack of access for people living on the fringes of the metro area is another - the good jobs are in Boston and people want easier access. Long story short, I think people are coming around on that a bit.
In the past 10-15 years I think this has definitely changed a good deal in general. Quite simply, traffic is getting to the point of being prohibitive for many. So traffic improvement from T investments is one glaringly obvious area of improvement to anyone. The concentration of jobs in/around Boston and the lack of access for people living on the fringes of the metro area is another - the good jobs are in Boston and people want easier access. Long story short, I think people are coming around on that a bit.
People are waking up to that part a bit, I think the remaining challenge for many is how to achieve that politically.
I still think it's the amount of people using the T that really sucks. The jobs need to be spread out around the state of MA or people need to WFH.
WHY is WFH not encouraged more? Coming into the office is really just a waste of time for many roles. I'm not saying WFH 5 days a week, but there is no reason for many people to commute in. They work they do can be done from home.
Things are only going to get worse in boston if something doesnt change. The culture of needing to be in the office just to look like a hero really pisses me off. Stay home, Work from home.
Even if the train is 'fixed' that doesnt stop the amount of people using it to get to work which is a problem as well.
Last edited by Bridge781; 06-27-2019 at 01:47 PM..
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