Are we finally headed in the right direction? (transportation) (Boston: home, live in)

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

We’ve been eliminating parking, and car lanes adding bike lanes and hubway bikes and car ridership has increased, as has congestion. Maybe it’s time for a new strategy? Maybe it’s not realistic to ask people to bike and zipcar regularly?

People have kids car seats friends luggage, are out of shape, have ultra long commutes, there’s inhospitable weather, there are unavailable zip cars, there’s older folks, there’s people who can’t ride bikes, there’s people without smart phones who can’t zip car, people with suspended zip car accounts, people who lost their zipcard, there’s jobs that require you to bring heavy equipment in or wear bulky clothing...there are just so many rradon’s simply making driving expensive won’t dig us out of this hole

Not to mention people who work late at night.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Yea but there are also lower middle class south shore towns that are less well off than Billerica like Stoughton Avon Holbrook Abington and Randolph all with median income of 65-75k .and probably a bunch of other towns towns far NW and far south were overlooking.

Bridgewater is $63K. Taunton is $52K. A huge fraction of people in those towns drive up Route 24 to metro Boston jobs. And median means half the town makes less than that.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Bridgewater is $63K. Taunton is $52K. A huge fraction of people in those towns drive up Route 24 to metro Boston jobs. And median means half the town makes less than that.

Bridgewater is skewed by the college and number of students, it's more affluent than it looks on paper. Taunton has lots of ghetto, and associated shiftless people. Both do also have many commuting up 24 (or on the train), but those tend to be among the higher earners in both places.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

Bridgewater is $63K. Taunton is $52K. A huge fraction of people in those towns drive up Route 24 to metro Boston jobs. And median means half the town makes less than that.

People who drive into Boston are on average wealthier than those who don’t. People from Taunton aren’t driving to Boston to be a barista at Starbucks or a evening manager at Shaw’s making 35k a year. Those kind of jobs are available in Taunton. The median Boston bound income is probably like 20%+ higher.


Commuters who commute into Boston are largely wealthier than Bostonians or Chelsea/Lynn/Somerville residents that take the T everywhere. Taxing them is much less regressive than raising T fares.

Plus T riders are already buried by the costs of the Big Dig that did nothing for them.

[GeePee]

I agree wholeheartedly. I pay Boston taxes for you to clog the roads because we are the ones with jobs. Pay a little for that. I'm into it.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

Plus T riders are already buried by the costs of the Big Dig that did nothing for them.

Baker's doing (a real POS as A&F Sec). The idea that a con like him can fix this, when exacerbated the issue, is ridiculous. Not that any of the center right politicians MA elects to Governor have ever had what it takes to fix it. Just kicking the can down the road more and more.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

People who drive into Boston are on average wealthier than those who don’t. People from Taunton aren’t driving to Boston to be a barista at Starbucks or a evening manager at Shaw’s making 35k a year. Those kind of jobs are available in Taunton. The median Boston bound income is probably like 20%+ higher.

The problem with "on average" and "median" is that it's not a useful practical measure for impact to commuters. Even if only 10% of the commuters are lower/middle income, that's still 10% of the traffic which has a MAJOR impact on everyone. And maybe not many folks from Taunton are commuting to Boston for jobs at Starbucks or Shaws, but they are absolutely commuting to go wait tables or bar tend at restaurants in Boston, take classes at schools there (especially grad students), or work low level medical jobs at Boston area hospitals, etc. The T is flat out not an option for many of them due to the lack of late night service, need to transfer, and the infrequent schedules. My ex commuted from Taunton to Game On! to wait tables. She made $60k for +/- 81 nights between April-October there. Nothing close to that in the Taunton area and it was worth it to pay to park each night (or sometimes park for free). I still know at least 5 people who work in Boston area hospitals in non-nursing/doctor roles that commute from Fall River, Taunton, Lakeville, Dartmouth, and Bridgewater. All of them earn in the ballpark of $50k or less, and all of them drive. I know because they complain about traffic on Facebook just about every day.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by lrfox

The problem with "on average" and "median" is that it's not a useful practical measure for impact to commuters. Even if only 10% of the commuters are lower/middle income, that's still 10% of the traffic which has a MAJOR impact on everyone. And maybe not many folks from Taunton are commuting to Boston for jobs at Starbucks or Shaws, but they are absolutely commuting to go wait tables or bar tend at restaurants in Boston, take classes at schools there (especially grad students), or work low level medical jobs at Boston area hospitals, etc. The T is flat out not an option for many of them due to the lack of late night service, need to transfer, and the infrequent schedules. My ex commuted from Taunton to Game On! to wait tables. She made $60k for +/- 81 nights between April-October there. Nothing close to that in the Taunton area and it was worth it to pay to park each night (or sometimes park for free). I still know at least 5 people who work in Boston area hospitals in non-nursing/doctor roles that commute from Fall River, Taunton, Lakeville, Dartmouth, and Bridgewater. All of them earn in the ballpark of $50k or less, and all of them drive. I know because they complain about traffic on Facebook just about every day.

50k/year still isn’t poor. That’s more than the median Bostonian makes. (Not a household but a single)

People who take the T are poorer than those who don’t. Even in the Subuns poor people take transit. 56% of MVRTA (Merrimack Valley) 56% of riders make under 20k/year

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by btownboss4

50k/year still isn’t poor. That’s more than the median Bostonian makes. (Not a household but a single)

People who take the T are poorer than those who don’t. Even in the Subuns poor people take transit. 56% of MVRTA (Merrimack Valley) 56% of riders make under 20k/year

No argument from me on the income front. I'm not trying to say that drivers aren't wealthier than T users. I'm just saying that not all drivers are "wealthy," and many are middle class and lower - living paycheck to paycheck and barely making ends meet. Even if the percentage i'm referring to is only 5-10% of the total number of drivers (and I'd wager it's actually higher), that's a major impact on highway traffic. And those people, who are dependent on their cars just to make ends meet, will also be disproportionately hurt by additional taxes and fees that are enacted before we have a viable alternative that is a an affordable, reliable, transit system that runs frequent schedules.

[btownboss4]

Originally Posted by lrfox

No argument from me on the income front. I'm not trying to say that drivers aren't wealthier than T users. I'm just saying that not all drivers are "wealthy," and many are middle class and lower - living paycheck to paycheck and barely making ends meet. Even if the percentage i'm referring to is only 5-10% of the total number of drivers (and I'd wager it's actually higher), that's a major impact on highway traffic. And those people, who are dependent on their cars just to make ends meet, will also be disproportionately hurt by additional taxes and fees that are enacted before we have a viable alternative that is a an affordable, reliable, transit system that runs frequent schedules.

I call Bull**** because gas was $3+/gallon for like a 5 years from 2003-2008 and there wasn’t some sort of crises. A 15c Gas Tax wouldn’t make Gas particularly expensive compared to historical costs(even not adjusting for inflation) heck has is 22c cheaper than 1 year ago.