Mayor Walsh tapped for Labor Secretary (Boston, Brookline: to buy, public schools, incomes)

[id77]

Originally Posted by msRB311

It's also not just middle class people leaving Boston either. I've been seeing quite a few $5-$8million brownstones popping up on redfin lately.

Those pop up all the time. I'm not a realtor so I can't speak to the statistics on backgrounds there, but the ones I've looked at (both historically and last year) were largely elderly either leaving or dying (and their kids don't want to pay the upkeep).

The band to watch will be the $1.5 to $3.5 million.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Are there any new developments in Boston that aren't 2BR or below?? Most of those units are in section 8 or public housing AFAIK.

Boston's entire strategy is to build small new units for young professionals to move in so that longtime natives can buy up/rent and move into the 3BR triple decker, but for middle-class people (especially a middle-class, white, American family) that's not good enough. Not when they have the social and educational capital to move to Raleigh North Carolina in a large modern SFH home for 50k less than that floor of the Triple Decker.

People used to live in West Roxbury and Dorchester but the houses were that much newer and the regulations were that much less. Every year a triple-decker *as is* becoming older and less desirable to a conventional American. It takes significant capital to keep them desirable and thus the upper-middle-class/upper class takes over.

One thing I've noticed is lot of newer "1 BR"s with what I consider to be ridiculously large footprints, talking 1600 sq. ft. Like what's the point, don't tell me you can't fit a 2nd bedroom in there??? The house I grew up in was no bigger and it had 4 bedrooms! WT...

[id77]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Are there any new developments in Boston that aren't 2BR or below?? Most of those units are in section 8 or public housing AFAIK.

Boston's entire strategy is to build small new units for young professionals to move in so that longtime natives can buy up/rent and move into the 3BR triple decker, but for middle-class people (especially a middle-class, white, American family) that's not good enough. Not when they have the social and educational capital to move to Raleigh North Carolina in a large modern SFH home for 50k less than that floor of the Triple Decker.

People used to live in West Roxbury and Dorchester but the houses were that much newer and the regulations were that much less. Every year a triple-decker *as is* becoming older and less desirable to a conventional American. It takes significant capital to keep them desirable and thus the upper-middle-class/upper class takes over.

I don't know about East Dedham..er, West Roxbury, but I would be asking why we're talking about Fenway and West Roxbury in the same breath here. The people who already live in Fenway, wouldn't hold much interest in the triple-deckers and SFHs of West Roxbury enough to sell their place to young professionals -- they're looking to move up to a bigger unit in Fenway or a brownstone in Back Bay. Those developments in Fenway are looking to bring in net new residents. None of this is done to the benefit of long-time locals.

There's a discussion to have about more housing in a Roslindale or West Roxbury, but it's not going to take remotely the same approach as more housing in Beacon Hill or Fenway. Those two areas share a name, transport system, and a government, but that's about where the similarities end.

[id77]

Originally Posted by massnative71

You're not following. These units are EMPTY. They were built to sell, and NEED them to sell.



Yes and I was primarily referring to those apartments and condos. Of course the trend has been away from them due to Covid.

My point is that the new development and the drop in the rental market are both going after the same demographic, and that demographic is not the middle-class families in the burbs hoping for prices to fall so they can move in to Boston eventually.

Anyone hoping the pandemic and/or a change in mayoral administration is going to pave the way for affordable family-sized, middle-class housing in Boston is going to be disappointed since all of the development and discussion is doing little to address that gap.

There's certainly a little bit of new larger housing being built in the inner neighborhoods -- I've seen the scaffolding go up on a few brownstones being de-converted from 5-6 units back to 2-3 units -- but it's few and far between and those units, when they do go up for sale, will be beyond the reach of the middle-class.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by id77

I don't know about East Dedham..er, West Roxbury, but I would be asking why we're talking about Fenway and West Roxbury in the same breath here. The people who already live in Fenway, wouldn't hold much interest in the triple-deckers and SFHs of West Roxbury enough to sell their place to young professionals -- they're looking to move up to a bigger unit in Fenway or a brownstone in Back Bay. Those developments in Fenway are looking to bring in net new residents. None of this is done to the benefit of long-time locals.

There's a discussion to have about more housing in a Roslindale or West Roxbury, but it's not going to take remotely the same approach as more housing in Beacon Hill or Fenway. Those two areas share a name, transport system, and a government, but that's about where the similarities end.

Do you actually know this? I would imagine many of these people looking to move do so because their personal circumstances and priorities have changed. Many reasons why one would relocate from Fenway to West Roxbury or Roslindale.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by id77

My point is that the new development and the drop in the rental market are both going after the same demographic, and that demographic is not the middle-class families in the burbs hoping for prices to fall so they can move in to Boston eventually.

Anyone hoping the pandemic and/or a change in mayoral administration is going to pave the way for affordable family-sized, middle-class housing in Boston is going to be disappointed since all of the development and discussion is doing little to address that gap.

There's certainly a little bit of new larger housing being built in the inner neighborhoods -- I've seen the scaffolding go up on a few brownstones being de-converted from 5-6 units back to 2-3 units -- but it's few and far between and those units, when they do go up for sale, will be beyond the reach of the middle-class.

Who said anything about middle-class families moving in from the suburbs???

[msRB311]

Living in Fenway is hardcore city living. Living in Westi or Rozzi it's not. It's still busy but more of a suburban feel.

[id77]

Originally Posted by massnative71

Do you actually know this? I would imagine many of these people looking to move do so because their personal circumstances and priorities have changed. Many reasons why one would relocate from Fenway to West Roxbury or Roslindale.

Nobody can speak for everybody, but given where I live and where people I know live, I can say those I know who live in Fenway have little to no interest in West Rox. If they're going to go to a suburban setting, they're going to go to Brookline or Metro West along the D line (Longwood, hint hint). West Roxbury or Roslindale would very much be a move in the wrong direction for several reasons.

[msRB311]

I work(ed) in the longwood area and quite a few people are from West Roxbury or Roslindale.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by massnative71

One thing I've noticed is lot of newer "1 BR"s with what I consider to be ridiculously large footprints, talking 1600 sq. ft. Like what's the point, don't tell me you can't fit a 2nd bedroom in there??? The house I grew up in was no bigger and it had 4 bedrooms! WT...

A lot of that has to do with what constitutes a "legal" bedroom, I think. Especially in conversions of older buildings that weren't initially residential. We looked at a few with similar stats and that's what we found. A few had a "bonus room!" that had no windows (so no outside egress and therefore not a "legal" bedroom) but were otherwise pretty normal in terms of the size of the rooms and one was an absolutely massive loft with a huge open living room/kitchen and an uncomfortably large loft style bedroom.

That's a big part of the reason why talks of converting the vacant Superman building in Providence haven't progressed much. The square footage of the massive floor plates in an office tower don't lend themselves to residential redevelopment. It'd be full of 1600 sq ft 1br units and 2200 square foot 2brs. Not really cost effective for the developer.