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That actually makes sense since Brockton is mostly working families who would rein in their troublemaker kid if school complains whereas "parents" of Boston troublemakers are in most cases that very same troublemaker kid, only 16 years older, and are a lot more likely to simply re-state what their troublemaker kid originally stated that got him in trouble, in even more choice language.
I wouldn't exactly say that Brockton is awash and cash to say the least. I'm not a huge union supporter but when it comes down to it the parents are what make or break students so at what point can it can that parents need to step up? If the problem was teachers they would have fired them and found better ones. Unless there is actual abuse DSS isn't going to take kids away. DSS has never been called for stupid parents.
Bwahahahaha! I had to let that out because as the moment I read the title of the post, so many memories of my days as both a student and as an educator in the BPS came flooding back. I can tell you an insane amount of stories from my experience as a substitute teacher in the BPS. I substitute taught at the middle and high school levels in some of the toughest schools in the district and other than seeing someone get murdered (thank the Highest Power I did not witness anything like that!), I think I can say I've seen it all. All I can tell you is that not one party is to blame but EVERYONE is to blame, the students, the parents, the teachers, the administrators, the politicians, the colleges and universities, the private partners, heck the very communities themselves. The BPS nowadays is set up in such a way that everyone is only looking out for themselves. Sure there's a lot of attempted investment from million dollar grants from nationally renowned non-profits and corporations to new state of the art facilities (which BTW a community has to have political connections to get which is why not every school has been updated) but for the most part they lack a sense of community. In fact, some of the very tools and techniques used to "improve" a school end up backfiring because they do not fit with the psychological well-being of the students and yet other techniques that probably can work are either not tested or shot down. I for one, found out many students with ADD learn better when in motion so I wonder why no one thought of modeling a school after Aristotle's Lyceum in which students walked around in circles while their instructors lectured them. Why is everyone forced to be glued to their seats for hours on end?
As I said, I have countless tales to tell for which I do not have the time for but I'll share this anecdote. There was this high school in a tough inner city neighborhood I subbed many times including four long term assignments. During my first year there, the place felt like a prison. Classroom doors were locked at all times the teacher wasn't there (substitute teachers like me weren't given keys HA!), the hallways were dimly lit, and students were not allowed to take schoolbooks home because in previous years too many had been stolen. Over the course of several years however, the school atmosphere improved because the hardworking disciplinarians listened to the teachers and did their job, students still didn't love the school but began to have a sense of belonging, and by my final year there, teachers openly left their doors unlocked. Then a new administration came in, what sense of community went out the door with the firings of several individuals who knew how to manage the school properly, and the school itself was reorganized into something no one wanted. Instances like this happened time and time again in the BPS.
The BPS at one time used to be a very good public school system, so good that suburban parents wanted to send their kids to the BPS. That was the time when Boston's communities actually cared about their schools and everyone That all began to end in the 1970's. Court ordered bussing was partly to blame but that was really the nail on the coffin for a problem that started years before. When the BPS will become a good public school system again is when the Superintendent and each and every single high ranking administrator send their own kids to attend the BPS (and I mean any public school NOT named Boston Latin or Boston Latin Academy) and actually appreciate the schools. Our communities need to care about the schools in order to invest in them but what's there to care about if the people in charge don't really care about them. It's just like the MBTA Execs who make all the decisions but don't ride the T and don't know what it's like to be late to work because of a train delay. The BPS execs have to show the community you care about its institutions in order to win the support of the community and that means sending their kids to the BPS instead of private school or suburban schools and walking the streets of Boston like any ordinary Bostonian instead of jumping into their flash Cadillacs and rushing off to Lexington, Winchester, or Needham at the end of the day.
Reinstate neighborhood schools and those who live in the city and go to catholic schools will
Slowly come back. The elementary school lottery is so broken and ridiculous. Will it improve all the schools? No but it will in the wealthy areas. Also, I bet more families will move into the city. We loved west Roxbury and the residential tax exemption is appealing but not if you have to pay 7k per kid to go to holy name then say a prayer they get into Boston Latin.
Reinstate neighborhood schools and those who live in the city and go to catholic schools will
Slowly come back. The elementary school lottery is so broken and ridiculous. Will it improve all the schools? No but it will in the wealthy areas. Also, I bet more families will move into the city. We loved west Roxbury and the residential tax exemption is appealing but not if you have to pay 7k per kid to go to holy name then say a prayer they get into Boston Latin.
I thought they reinstated neighborhood schools quite a few years ago now.
Boston public schools were marginal to begin with, but at least they had a chance to improve (in theory) as recently as a few years ago. That all seems far away now. COVID-19, teachers unions shenanigans and allowing critical race theory to invade the system seems to have dealt a death blow to the chance of a quality education.
You look at the city of Boston and at how much it costs to buy a place and you'd just assume that the schools would be better. In any expensive town, the schools are typically good. What happens in Boston though is the schools end up being inhabited by people who can't afford to buy. They are people on section 8 or people renting apts and houses with multigenerational families. The people who can afford Boston real estate can afford private school. There are exceptions of course. I've worked with hippy dippy people who thought they were being some type of warrior by sending their kid to one of the better BPS schools (bates and some other school in JP) but the moment they don't get the school they want in the lottery they're out. I also have to say that these hippy dippy people were highly intelligent with money and I can only assume their offspring will inherit some of this and do ok where ever they go. They are I guess the more privileged ones at BPS. I don't really have answers on how to improve BPS. It will probably continue to be this way even more as immigration picks up again.
I thought they reinstated neighborhood schools quite a few years ago now.
We investigated the neighborhood elementary schools around JP (which has $500k-$1.5 million condos), they are still terrible and there's still a lottery system. Boston seems unique in that even lower grades have terrible schools and outcomes. In Seattle here, the elementary schools in good neighborhoods are very solid, but the high schools drop off as the catchment area increases across the city, which is I think more typical of other cities I've lived. People in Seattle start thinking about exam schools or private schools around high school.
One of the theory I had was that the middle class and above have kids VERY late in the Boston area, usually after the parents are more established in their careers. This allows for more disposable income for those who can afford a $500k condo to also afford private schools or at least Catholic schools. The property taxes are also fairly low with the residential exemption to make this tradeoff not totally feel like pissing money away. At the same time, the renter population in these neighborhoods are more transient and at earlier stages of their careers (medical residents, graduate students, etc) where they may not have kids, or maybe just very young kids not in school yet. There are also a lot of project and affordable housing scattered throughout the city. So you basically have the wealthy and the very poor living together, not much of a middle class with school-aged kids. 78% of BPS students qualified for reduced/free lunch.
It's a shame that a city known for education and high tech, as well as being one of the richest and most expensive cities in the country, has such a poor public school system.
I thought they reinstated neighborhood schools quite a few years ago now.
Only a little bit, for elementary schools. It’s more likely you get your neighborhoods school but it’s by no means guaranteed.
The share of white students has increased a little bit since 2013 (12.6%-14.9%) as more black students have left for charter schools and overall enrollment has declined by about 4/5000 kids in the past 8 years. 2013 was the all time low in white students. Typically white students are better off in Boston- so maybe the increase will continue and change BPS some in terms of class. That also may be a pipe dream, I dunno.
JP has lots of public housing and section 8 rentals in addition to all those $.5-1.5M condos and those living in the condos aren’t typically known for practicing what they preach (very, very loudly) when it comes to equity and diversity at school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guineas
We investigated the neighborhood elementary schools around JP (which has $500k-$1.5 million condos), they are still terrible and there's still a lottery system. Boston seems unique in that even lower grades have terrible schools and outcomes. In Seattle here, the elementary schools in good neighborhoods are very solid, but the high schools drop off as the catchment area increases across the city, which is I think more typical of other cities I've lived. People in Seattle start thinking about exam schools or private schools around high school.
One of the theory I had was that the middle class and above have kids VERY late in the Boston area, usually after the parents are more established in their careers. This allows for more disposable income for those who can afford a $500k condo to also afford private schools or at least Catholic schools. The property taxes are also fairly low with the residential exemption to make this tradeoff not totally feel like pissing money away. At the same time, the renter population in these neighborhoods are more transient and at earlier stages of their careers (medical residents, graduate students, etc) where they may not have kids, or maybe just very young kids not in school yet. There are also a lot of project and affordable housing scattered throughout the city. So you basically have the wealthy and the very poor living together, not much of a middle class with school-aged kids. 78% of BPS students qualified for reduced/free lunch.
It's a shame that a city known for education and high tech, as well as being one of the richest and most expensive cities in the country, has such a poor public school system.
You look at the city of Boston and at how much it costs to buy a place and you'd just assume that the schools would be better. In any expensive town, the schools are typically good. What happens in Boston though is the schools end up being inhabited by people who can't afford to buy. They are people on section 8 or people renting apts and houses with multigenerational families. The people who can afford Boston real estate can afford private school. There are exceptions of course. I've worked with hippy dippy people who thought they were being some type of warrior by sending their kid to one of the better BPS schools (bates and some other school in JP) but the moment they don't get the school they want in the lottery they're out. I also have to say that these hippy dippy people were highly intelligent with money and I can only assume their offspring will inherit some of this and do ok where ever they go. They are I guess the more privileged ones at BPS. I don't really have answers on how to improve BPS. It will probably continue to be this way even more as immigration picks up again.
Absolutely right at that. The Boston Public Schools with few exceptions are NOT economically diverse. The BPS outside of the examination high schools and a select few elementary and K-8 schools are almost entirely populated by students from low income backgrounds who cannot afford to go anywhere else. As I said in my previous long response, a school is good only insofar as the community invests in it. How can a school be good if the community it serves cannot afford to invest in it and no one else really gives a darn? People don't realize but their children's education is perhaps the most sensitive matter they will ever have to decide on, perhaps even more so than finding a new job or buying a house. It is a very sensitive matter and settling for second rate is not good enough if you can help it.
I have several ideas that might be able to improve the BPS though there are no guarantees:
1)Invest time and mentorship into the schools - too many times I've seen teachers (not all of them but many) leave right after school just because the BTU contract doesn't obligate them to stay after to tutor and mentor students and no amount of money or fancy school buildings can replace mentorship.
2) Let the community have a big say - the Boston School Department loves to make all the decisions behind closed doors but they need to listen to those whose children actually attend the schools or who actually work in the schools.
3) End any notion of magnet schools - it has been tried before and it doesn't work. I am all for diverse schools and diverse environments but you cannot force your way into such an arrangement as the BPS had tried to in the past. For one thing, the rich boss is not going to send his kid to mingle with us poor minions so don't try to tell him that he has to. The one exception of course ought to be the BPS administrators but they shouldn't even be making as much money as a corporate CEO in the first place. Yet if parents of any background feel that their child is safe and will thrive in the school, they will send their child to that school and pretty soon you'll have a diverse fruit basket .
4) Win back the trust of the community - the best way to do that is to provide a safe and secure environment where any student from any background can thrive. High test scores and good grades will follow but only if the student feels safe from bullies, tormentors, and even disrespecting teachers and administrators. That is an awful lot of work to do that involves everyone from HR to Guidance to the school architect but it needs to be done.
5) Invest in the infrastructure - all right this is America, not some 3rd world country. With the amount of taxes we pay, the public money ought to be invested in nice, comfortable modern school buildings to replace those old red brickhouses built during FDR's New Deal but not updated. Just a word of warning though that once again you need the community's input because the BPS has screwed up big time in the past by blindly investing in a new school building that did not work.
Anyone else have any other thoughts?
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